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Been looking at warmachines/hordes and have been really impressed with what i've seen on the website but had some general questions on game play.

1) how long does your typical game take?

2) how many models are in a typical army?

3) how much does an average army cost?

4) is the game fairly balanced, or are there a few specific armies/lists that dominate.

I've played 40k since 3rd edition if it helps to make any comparisons.

psionicmonkey wrote:Been looking at warmachines/hordes and have been really impressed with what i've seen on the website but had some general questions on game play.

1) how long does your typical game take?

2) how many models are in a typical army?

3) how much does an average army cost?

4) is the game fairly balanced, or are there a few specific armies/lists that dominate.

I've played 40k since 3rd edition if it helps to make any comparisons.

1) Entirely depends on how many points you play. A simple battle box will only take 20 minutes to a half hour unless there is a lot of teaching necessary. A 35 point can go anywhere from 30 minutes(quick assassination) to about 2 hours.

2) This really is entirely up to the player, and also somewhat decided by the faction. My Retribution army typically has somewhere between 20 and 30 models on the table in a 35 point game. Can be more or less depending on how warjack/warbeast heavy the army is.

3) If you are aiming for one specific list, a 35 pt army(which is the typical size we play at my store, some people typically play higher), and again depending on how jack/beast heavy you are making that list, can go anywhere from about $150 to about $300. I would say that between the books, tokens, dice, and owning 1 of nearly every unit/model in the retribution arsenal(2 of some models) I've spent less than $500.

4) The game is generally pretty balanced. Cryx is generally considered to be a bit more powerful than others because of all the very nasty things they can do, but they are by no means unbeatable. Retribution is generally considered to be slightly weaker than the other factions in some regards simply because we are the newest faction and have some kinks that need worked out, and some things that the faction could use that are still missing. The game is way way better balanced than 40k, with no real "favorite" army like you have with the Marines in 40k(I've also played 40k since 3rd)

Khisanth has already answered a few questions as well as they can be answered, particularly in regards to game length and balance.

As further example, I'll answer #2 and #3 based on my Circle Orboros army.

Hordes armies are generally more warbeast focused than equal-sized Warmachine armies are warjack-focused.

In a 35 point Circle Orboros list, I typically run 3 heavy warbeasts(which may make me unusual... I'm the only Circle player I've met so far in my local meta). I then fill out the remaining points with infantry, and can have anywhere between 10-20 infantry(usually in a mix of 2-3 units).

My 35 Khador armies generally run 2 heavy warjacks, and between 15-25 infantry.

As for cost - I've traded for a portion of my Circle Orboros army, so I can't speak as to whole cost, but at a guess I'd say I've probably spent about $200 on it so far. I do have a lot of warbeasts though, and am lacking in infantry.

One of the nice things about Privateer Press games is that you can purchase a collection of models and a small number of warcasters or warlocks, and depending on which caster you take, your playstyle can change dramatically.

psionicmonkey wrote:1) how long does your typical game take?

35 point games are usually done in about an hour (sometimes longer)

2) how many models are in a typical army?

Depends on the faction, caster and a few other factors (specific scenarios/tournament formats)

3) how much does an average army cost?

I would wager the average 35 point army would be somewhere around $200-$250. You don't need to buy the deck, tokens or dice if you don't want to)

4) is the game fairly balanced, or are there a few specific armies/lists that dominate.

Yes, its a very balanced game compared to 40k there are some combo's/casters that are better than others (depends on who you ask) but I have never seen a caster or unit thats completely useless.

Thanks for the replies. I was planning on filling out my dark eldar more or starting somes orks, but think I will pick up some of the books, though I'm not sure what faction I'm leaning towards, all the models looks really good and I'm not sure the playstyles of the armies. Any of them, well more smashier than the others?

psionicmonkey wrote:Thanks for the replies. I was planning on filling out my dark eldar more or starting somes orks, but think I will pick up some of the books, though I'm not sure what faction I'm leaning towards, all the models looks really good and I'm not sure the playstyles of the armies. Any of them, well more smashier than the others?

For warmachine:

Cygnar is all about the ranged gun-line.

Khador is "We like super heavy armor and smashing axes into faces for mother Khador"

Ret is "Tricksy Elvesesssss...."

Menoth generally has lower stat lines but is huge on buffs

Cryx is all about flinging spells, debuffs, denial, and generally being an ***

For Horde:

Legion is more about stealth, and countering stealth, hitting hard and fading into the shadows(hmmm, ninja faction?)

Trolls are hard to kill, and just want to break things. Lots of things. As brutally(or sillily) as possible.

Skorne is a lot more defensive, although once they engage they are quite capable of bringing the pain

Circle is about nature, casting lots of spells, and werewolfs. Lots of cute puppies.

Khisanth Magus wrote:Cygnar is all about the ranged gun-line.

WHAT? You never played Cygnar yourself, right?
So again and this time the right way: Cygnar is all about combined arms force with some strong ranged options.

Agreed, Cygnar is not just only about shooting everything to death. They're good at it, but a combined arms list does much better for them than just straight up shooting. In fact, most armies can play quite a few different styles. Khador can play a pretty mean shooty list as well with epic Irusk. This is mainly due to Khador having some of the best light artillery around and Irusk having a fantastic support spell for it. However, everything else is pretty much summed up well I think.

Khisanth Magus wrote:
Menoth generally has lower stat lines but is huge on buffs

Maybe the 'jacks. But I'd say Weapon Master is an equally trademark Menoth trait.

psionicmonkey wrote:I will pick up some of the books, though I'm not sure what faction I'm leaning towards, all the models looks really good and I'm not sure the playstyles of the armies. Any of them, well more smashier than the others?

Any faction can smash face. I don't think theres a bad caster in the 100+ casters in the game. Like others have said find a caster you like and that will dictate your style of play.

Here is my rundown of the factions (using some casters to emphasize variety in play).

Warmachine
Cygnar - combined arms, good combination of melee and ranged units. Can go melee with eStryker or gunline with Sloan. Fluffy wise they are the closest to the "good guys".

Khador - in my experience against them they are less of a combined arms army than Cyganr. Good melee and ranged units but their casters tend to prefer one or the other. With casters like The Butcher and Karchev for close combat armies, and eIrusk for gunline. They are steam punk communists.

Cryx - undead, zombies and pirates. If there was a "more powerful" faction in Warmachine it would be Cryx (see Cankerworm). They are the glass cannon faction.

Menoth - religious zelots. The army can run the most weapon masters in the game, but usually win battles of attrition due to their buffs.

Retribution - a combined arms approach is best, while a gunline is possible. Newest faction to the game, they have some great solos. Elves...not much more to say there.

Mercs - little bit of everything. Depends on which contract or caster you take.


Hordes

Skorne - army from across the desert. More close combat orientated, with good fury management. Has a real Asian feel with the back banners.

Trolls - if there was a combined arms army it would be trolls. However they are better off picking one or the other. They have some of the most interesting rules (snacking) and most annoying (tough).

Legion - the glass cannon of hordes, blighted creatures. The other Hordes army that can make a good shooting army.

Circle - druids, sayters and warewolfs. Mostly a melee force, can have extremely high defense on their beasts.

Minions - only two factions gators or pigs (both are melee based). Should be getting a big boost when the next book for Hordes comes out.


When you get an idea about your faction, I'm (and probably other posters) will be more than willing to go into more detail about the faction.

Great summaries, may I recommend reading through the faction fluff and picking the 'feel' that you like because all in all its a very balanced game and I (for one) think its best to pick the faction that you like the feel of over who is the 'best' ( a lot of 'best' will depend on your local meta game and even moreso on your generaling).

Thanks so much for all the info. GW didn't ship my incubi on my last order through my flgs so I spent that money on the prime book, figure I will read through that and go from there.

psionicmonkey wrote:Thanks so much for all the info. GW didn't ship my incubi on my last order through my flgs so I spent that money on the prime book, figure I will read through that and go from there.

GW is raising prices again. WarmaHordes should be your new past time!

Khisanth Magus wrote:
Legion is more about stealth, and countering stealth, hitting hard and fading into the shadows(hmmm, ninja faction?)

Though legion has plenty of stealth units. It also has one the best gunlines (eLylyth), Some of the heaviest hitting beasts(Carnivean, Typhon).

But to sum it up, Legion is a rule ignoring glass cannon. Nothing with the amount of armor some other factions can bring to the table. Also, we are generally the most hated hordes faction because of the rule ignoring :3

Update so far, decided to start with cygnar because I just loved the feel of them and have played about 10 games with the battle box. Really love the fast and brutal play style and while the rules were simple for me to grasp I find there is a lot of strategy and depth to the game. Haven't broke out any of my 40k since I started and look forward to expanding.

psionicmonkey wrote:Really love the fast and brutal play style and while the rules were simple for me to grasp I find there is a lot of strategy and depth to the game.

Thumbs up to this. I think that statement perfectly encapsulates what Warmachine means to me, and it's a great description of the game. I'm glad you're really enjoying it so far. What are your plans for expanding from the battle box?

Cryx aren't that tricky. I think they suffer from an image problem they were much worse in MK1.

Cygnar are the most powerful faction now. They have good combat jacks, they have the best shooting, they have a lot of tricks that make for easy assasinations (foxhole). Chain lightning to kill off large groups, tough arch nodes. Voltaic snare and disrupt to shut down jacks, and several ways to see through stealth

Cryx on the other hand have very little to shoot with. Most casters are on medium bases so can be picked out. Being able to pick up souls is overrated with the exception of some spells you need to have your caster on the front line to benifit, which will get them killed.

I'm not having a dig at cygnar I just don't think cryx are most powerful army. Menoth and Cygnar are much tougher IMO and they place best in tourneys .

Really? I'm looking through the results of the last few Masters and Hardcore tournaments, and it's reading like a love song to Cryx and Khador. Not much mention of Cygnar or Protectorate, although Skorne and Circle have done decently.

Out of curiosity, where can you find those results/archives?

Mr. Grey wrote:

psionicmonkey wrote:Really love the fast and brutal play style and while the rules were simple for me to grasp I find there is a lot of strategy and depth to the game.

Thumbs up to this. I think that statement perfectly encapsulates what Warmachine means to me, and it's a great description of the game. I'm glad you're really enjoying it so far. What are your plans for expanding from the battle box?

Well I borrowed a hunter to try out, really like that jack. Also thinking of a stormclad, long gunners, maybe haley as well. To be honest ill probaly start picking up a lot, its so much cheaper compared to 40k. It cost me close to 300 bucks just for transports for my dark eldar, when for that I could get more cygnar than I would need for awhile.

Sgt.Sunshine wrote:Out of curiosity, where can you find those results/archives?

I just used Google. >.>

Not to say Cygnar isn't competitive. It is, and that Kraye win a year or so back is something of a poke in the eye for anyone who was slagging them, but the majority of major tourneys seem to be going to Cryx and Khador at the moment (along with a smattering of Skorne and Circle). Of course, I'll be the first to note that it really mostly boils down to player skill, as it should be.

Yes it is down to player skill a lot. A lot of those Skorne wins in major tournaments have been done by Tyrant Watts, who then went to Adepticon using Retribution, which is considered to be a inferior faction. Guess what, he had second place with them.

Warmachine/ Hordes is balanced in such a way now that you can win with any faction, it is just depending on your skill. There might be more competitive choises for some factions but in the end the players decide the results.

It'd be good to know what % of players were playing what factions

The best way to find that out is looking at tournament results, I think. And even then, its not very representative, because we usually only know the top level players. I think Mercenary, Retribution and Minions are the rarest players. Most the Warmachine and Hordes ones are pretty well represented after that, but there may be (as I can gather) less Circle and Protectorate players out there of those.

And stuff.

obsidianaura wrote:I'm not having a dig at cygnar I just don't think cryx are most powerful army. Menoth and Cygnar are much tougher IMO and they place best in tourneys .

Really? Is that why the only major event Cygnar has won was a Hardcore tournament where the scenarios were perfect for a Kraye list (plus the fact that Kraye is a rare caster to see on the table and probably caught some people off guard)? Menoth hasn't placed in anything as far as I know. Cryx mops up quite frequently. No faction is better than the others, but Cryx is the closest to being "first among equals" in that they have almost no bad choices. Cygnar does extremely well in the leagues, because they have the best organization on the boards and the league special rules frequently give them a super awesome model (GMCA Jr., Gravedigger, the new Master Gunner) and 2-3 extra points to spend.

Out of the Warmachine factions, Cygnar probably has the most lemons (everything trencher, longgunners, GMCA, etc) and quite a few choices that are a tad expensive, but on the other hand can utilize mercs with impunity. Really, choosing Cygnar is like choosing Cygnar and Highborn, since the factions have so many overlaps (hell, even the new Cygnar caster and jack for Wrath is shared with the mercs).

Omegus wrote:

obsidianaura wrote:I'm not having a dig at cygnar I just don't think cryx are most powerful army. Menoth and Cygnar are much tougher IMO and they place best in tourneys .

Really? Is that why the only major event Cygnar has won was a Hardcore tournament where the scenarios were perfect for a Kraye list (plus the fact that Kraye is a rare caster to see on the table and probably caught some people off guard)?

How are Hardcore scenarios ideal for Kraye? They're all Killbox. Unless you're an idiot, I don't see how that scenario favors anyone.

It happened, don't ask me how.

http://www.minifeat.com/?p=55
http://www.minifeat.com/?p=57

Omegus wrote:It happened, don't ask me how.

http://www.minifeat.com/?p=55
http://www.minifeat.com/?p=57

I'm well aware he won, but his wins had pretty much nothing to do with scenario, and everything to do with him giving his opponents a sound ass-whupping. Trying to say he only won due to scenario and people being unfamiliar with Kraye is doing a profound disservice to both Brandon and his opponents, especially when Killbox might as well just be Assassination in the first place.

Fair enough, that only serves to reinforce my point that Cygnar is hardly walking away with tournaments left and right.