GK Stormravens.

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**InquisitorVaron**

Im not seeing how the Stormraven is made of paper. It's fast and can move 24" and fire a Multi-Melta or Typhoon missile launcher. With the Melta it makes it's effective range 36" nothing too scoff at. The typhoon missile launcher is just a beast though, effective range of 72" so its effectively got the same range as a Hammerhead. Move it 12" and you can fire two weapons and moving it 6" you can fire everything. It's guns galore and If you play it right you can take out more points than its own cost and thanks too fortitude I will always move. Mostly anyway.

So I don't see how it's really that bad.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
That and your opponent needs 13 lascannons too always kill it and with the rest of the army backing it up I see no fault.

**Bruteboss**

Yes all of your points are true. But who said it was bad?

The stormraven has a couple of flaws but that doesn't make it a bad unit, simply balanced.

1) High cost in a high cost army. GK don't fill up every slot of the FOC, but there is intense competition on where to spend your points. A lot of people simply can't find room for a 205+ point unit in their plans.

2) The size and height of the model. Stormravens are giant models on a giant flying base. It means they pretty much never have TLOS blocking cover from the enemy.

3) Target priority. Ravens have amazing firepower and can drop a deadly assault unit on the enemy very fast. What do you think your enemy is going to shoot first? People that play balanced lists may not want a unit that sticks out like a sore thumb as "target #1". Forcing your enemy to make tough choices in shooting priorities is a big part of the game and the stormraven removes that. If its on the board, chances are it will be shot at first. It can be frustrating playing a unit you expect to die every game.

4) Some people think the model is ugly. I personally like it, as it fits the aesthetic of space marine vehicles in general, but I can easily see whats not to like when you compare it to other flyers.

5) Comparison with the BA stormraven. I think they are about equal if you look at how they fit into the army. But the BA version packs far superior anti-tank firepower thanks to bloodstrike missiles, and carries infantry/dreadnoughts that are generally superior in assault. The raven was designed as fast assault transport and in that role, it fits just a little better. I still think its an amazing vehicle for GK armies, just that I can't deny that a lot of its abilities were built with Blood Angles in mind.

**Avariel**

Storm Raven doesn't really have a place in the Grey Knight army. When you take a storm raven you take it as an assault transport for an assault dreadnought. Well Grey Knights don't have any assault dreadnoughts. Their dreadnoughts are better shooty. In a Blood Angels list the Storm Raven is the blood talon dreadnought delivery system.

**pdawg517**

I am a firm believer that you can make Storm Ravens work in both BA's and GK's. You just have to build your list around them. I am planning on running 3 at 2k for our escalation league. Its not the most competitive list (I enjoy themed armies personally, but that's another can of worms). While I do agree that BA dreads are great coming out of them, you can put GK's dreads in them too. I am going to run 3 "psycannon" dreads and put 1 in each raven along with a squad. The psycannon has a short range so I will be making use of the Storm Ravens speed to get it in range. I think GK's can run the Ravens with the most survivability given that you can shroud and get a 3+ save while still laying down some fire.

**Kirika**

Storm Raven has merit in a grey knight list as a way to deliver an assault unit that does note compete with psyriflemen dreads in the heavy slots since you can't buy a dedicated land raider. Put a Venerable in the storm raven to get its b5 multimelta in range so your assaulty unit can assault the juicy contents.

**Bludbaff**

I've only had a chance to play one game with it thus far, but my plan is to use the SR for purifier delivery. If I've got room in the list for an AC/SB/psybolt dread it can ride along too.

The loadout I was planning on using was MM/plascannon/HBs. It can fire everything after a 12" move and has both anti-vehicle and anti-infantry weapons.

**Kirika**

I'd consider trying.

Storm Raven TL Multimelta + TL Las Cannon

6 Grey Knight terminators with Thrawn, 1 warding staff 1 psycannon rest falcions if they give +2 attacks.

Venerable Dreadnought

If you get first turn load up in the storm raven and move forward.

If you don't get first turn just walk the terminators and dread and reserve your raven.

**Mahu**

It isn't that it is necessarily made of paper.

It is the fact that it is a high points cost model, that struggles to get a cover save, in a game that can bring more then enough firepower to bring it down.

Space Wolves can easily field 8 Missile Launchers in the points cost it takes to field a single storm raven. That doesn't make the Storm Raven a bad choice. It just enforces that there needs to be some caution when fielding it.

On the subject at hand, here is a previous post I did on the same thing in this thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/367973.page

Mahu wrote:
GK ravens are far more durable with fortitude.

Fortitude is a minimal upgrade to the dependability of the storm raven. It doesn't make them any more resistant to damage, and with extra armor and power of the machine spirit, the boast to give them a little extra shooting at the end of the day isn't a huge deal. Because it is a psychic power, most storm ravens in grey knights still need to take extra armor anyways, as a bad roll or a blocked power can severely hamper it.

GK HQ options boost a storm raven list far more than BA options do. Librarians can shroud and summon and bring teleport homers, GMs can bring the ravens in from reserve faster and make any units inside scoring, and both can bring servo skulls to make deep strikes and blast weapons more accurate.

Shrouding is a winner as far as a Storm Raven goes, and being able to Manipulate reserve rolls as you see fit is a big deal as well. The issue will always be how much do you want to throw into it to pull all that off, and again, psychic defense can foil those plans regularly enough.

GK ravens are far better at anti-infantry than BA ones thanks to mindstrike missiles and psybolt ammo

Which because grey knights generally need as much anti-tank they can get a hold of, that isn't a strong point in the GK storm ravens favor. However, move flat out and firing a twin linked MM is the one thing that is very unit for that codex. As stated, psybolt takes away defensive weapons from the hurricane bolters which makes an already heavy price tag upgrade slightly worst, efficiency wise.

BA lists bring far superior close combat dreads with furioso and death company.

Which are also at a cheaper cost. Truth be told, Grey Knights don't have anything that they actively want to deliver quickly to assault.

BA are far better at anti-tank shooting thanks to bloodstrike missiles.

Which, in an army of highly mobile tank shooting, is rather a big deal and helps the Storm Raven fit a lot of different support roles in the BA army.

The infantry inside the ravens are about equal in quality, with a slight edge going to GK given the wide access to high initiative force weapons and stormbolters/psycannons.

This is where I disagree the most. Grey Knights on the pure stat line are a superior troop, but Blood Angels can field far more aggressive troops with a lot more durability in the form of FNP. Plus it should be noted that Blood Angels have a lot more troop options that actively wants to engage in assault at a cheaper price point then Grey Knights who have some decen combat abilities, but most certainly don't want to aggressively persue combats. Grey Knights are a midrange firepower army, Blood Angels is an aggressive assault army with excellent long range fire support. When discussion a fast skimmer with an assault ramp it because very clear which Marines want to be inside is more.

Overall, the BA list will have better long range anti-tank and more units (because they are cheaper) while the GK list will be slightly more balanced against all units and have better defense.

Storm Ravens are an interesting element of the Grey Knight army.

On one hand, they don't have the raw combat potential of Blood Angels to really take advantage of the rapid deployment potential of the craft. Their storm ravens are not plugging the hole of long range anti-tank like the Blood Angels version.

On the other hand, they are a fast attack choice, which makes the decision to take them less troublesome, as you can have your long range anti-at cake and eat it too. They also bring the very rare and precious commodity of mobile move and fire melta, which that codex severely lacks.

My general rule when it comes to the storm raven is to keep them cheap, and to keep their cargo cheap. Too often, players fall into the trap of overloading the storm raven and paying the consequences when a competitive army shoots them out of the sky in a turn.

With Blood Angels, I found their best use to be another mobile lascannon and multi-melta in the army. The only thing I ever put in them anymore is a Blood Talons Dreadnought or other low cost assault unit.

With Grey Knights I am thinking the same thing roughly. A storm raven with a MM Venerable Dreadnoughts is the way to go if you want to have Storm Ravens in that army. Put two of that combo on the table, and you can really threaten the type of tanks normal GK units will struggle against. Whether or not that is worth the roughly 800 point price tag is debatable.

**Grey Templar**

Avariel wrote:Storm Raven doesn't really have a place in the Grey Knight army. When you take a storm raven you take it as an assault transport for an assault dreadnought. Well Grey Knights don't have any assault dreadnoughts. Their dreadnoughts are better shooty. In a Blood Angels list the Storm Raven is the blood talon dreadnought delivery system.

The SR isn't for dropping a dred bomb.

its for a Purifier or Terminator squad to come assaulting out of along with a dred.

I am using 3 Stormravens with 3 squads of Purifiers and 3 Dreds with Multi-meltas or assault cannons.

the Dreds are for anti-vehicle. the Purifiers attack infantry and vehicles.

I also have a Libby with Shrouding so those Stormravens, when turbo-boosting, will have a 3+ cover.

after the Purifiers are dropped off, then the stormraven can stay still and become a gunship.

**daedalus-templarius**

Going to give the SR another go with a Shrouding, Summoning, Teleport-homering librarian and paladins in tow. Hopefully it will get where I want it to go.

**svendrex**

daedalus-templarius wrote:Going to give the SR another go with a Shrouding, Summoning, Teleport-homering librarian and paladins in tow. Hopefully it will get where I want it to go.

Shrouding is a good idea, but the teleport homer does not prevent scatter for the spell Summoning at the moment.

Maybe a FAQ will change this, but it is not likely.

**mindfield**

Is the SR more preferred transport than the LR? Fast attack or not,I think the GK needs more AT power that the LR rightfully provides, being both hot targets I think the LR is more survivable with it's AV14 skin than the speed and melta of the SR. Is this the correct way of analyzing the effectivity of these awesome models?

**GreyHamster**

The LR is also 50 more points in an already very expensive codex and more if you want it to be able to melta. It also occupies the congested heavy support slot, competing with dreadknights and Riflemen. The Stormraven can also move at twice the speed and duplicate some survivability through the cover saves from flat-out. It gets where it needs to be and fires. The four missiles give it a pretty solid alpha strike if you need it. I feel the main issue with the land raiders is the relative inability to tweak them for the exact role you intend to fill and the fact that they're very slow.

I think the choice comes down more to the tradeoff. A Stormraven over a LR offers potentially a different set of 3 heavy support units, and the points for a Paladin, or perhaps a couple of Purifiers. It also can be in position to perform an AT role more quickly between deep strike and faster movement, for less time spent worrying about whatever you need to crack open.

I've been having moderate success with a single Stormraven carrying a fairly bland Terminator squad. I can dump the Terminators down to seize a more distant objective and take off to harass their backfield with melta and lascannon. I definitely agree with keeping them cheap, you may as well paint a bullseye on it at my local games.

**InquisitorVaron**

My List includes them and with Coteaz I should mostly get the first turn.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/370373.page

That's the list feel free to check it out. One Stormravens job is too deliver a Assault unit the other is for a behind enemy lines Firing line, I find it splits their firepower well and against Assaulting units they've got too choose which too attack. The Assault Squad is Lethal and I don't really know of anything that can beat it (Mabye TH/SS but I've got way too many attacks) please comment on the list though