Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I had a small debate in a friendly practice game on whether you get a cover save in the odd case where some of the models are in area terrain granting cover saves for firing thru more than 2" of area terrain and part of the unit firing is out in the open firing at a unit in clear los in the open. I argued that you get cover saves from the models that grant them but not for the ones not granting them, claiming that it is resolved per models for saves, as per the brb referred to models shooting and the saves you get. I also stated for example it was the same for determine los per model and weapon profiles are per model, you can't take armor against plasma just because majority of the shots are bolter profiles. He argued that if part of the unit grants a cover save, the cover save can be taken for every shot fired by the unit, as long as the majority of the unit fired granted a cover save.
I also had a similar issue with vehicles firing where since some of shots granted cover and the others didn't because of los or firing thru terrain. I claimed that you take the saves based on the weapons, he claimed that you take all cover since majority of the shots granted cover.
I'm honestly looking for a solid answer either way with citation so I can get this cleared up once for all and not have it affect my game plan randomly depending on who I face.

The way I understand it, the brb states this:
count the number of models in cover from the perspective of the models firing (ignore different weapons for now).
If from the point of view of more than 50% of the firing units there is a minority of units getting a cover save, there is no cover given.
Alternatively, 50% or more of the firing models cannot see the majority of target models without them being in cover. Then a cover save is granted to every shot fired. As the plasma gun will ignore the armour save, this will grant the wound from the plasma gun the opportunity to be saved anyway, but unless you're facing orks or 'nids, take armour saves as appropriate.

Remember, in the same way that any model in a target unit can be removed as a casualty, so any shot from the barrage can be "saved" by cover.

edited to remove accidental double-post

The whole unit takes the same cover save which is whatever save the majority of models have.

See Units partially in cover - P22

Okay cool.

Ill find my rulebook and then ill get a proper quote but I think you just use a majority save for the whole unit. If 50 percent of the unit is in cover i think the whole unit gets the same cover save. Should have the quote in bout 5 mins.

Be careful, you do not use majority saves anymore that is a rule from 4th edition...for cover saves though you are correct in that a unit in cover is incover for all its models, you do not take saves based on where the models are standing.

LOS counts the majority of models in a unit for cover. If two units on on either side of intervening terrain, 1/2 of the shooting unit must has unhindered LOS to 1/2 of the 'catching' unit for no cover to be possible. Otherwise, cover abounds.

-cgmckenzie

cgmckenzie wrote:LOS counts the majority of models in a unit for cover. If two units on on either side of intervening terrain, 1/2 of the shooting unit must has unhindered LOS to 1/2 of the 'catching' unit for no cover to be possible.

Not quite right. The majority of the shooting unit must have unhindered LOS to the majority of the target unit. So you need >50% of your unit to be able to see >50% of the target unit.

overkongen wrote:

cgmckenzie wrote:LOS counts the majority of models in a unit for cover. If two units on on either side of intervening terrain, 1/2 of the shooting unit must has unhindered LOS to 1/2 of the 'catching' unit for no cover to be possible.

Not quite right. The majority of the shooting unit must have unhindered LOS to the majority of the target unit. So you need >50% of your unit to be able to see >50% of the target unit.

Or, to nitpick a little, you need more than 50% of the models that are actually shooting in your unit to be able to see more than 50% of the target unit.

insaniak wrote:
Or, to nitpick a little, you need more than 50% of the models that are actually shooting in your unit to be able to see more than 50% of the target unit.

This is a great point, for example two plasmaguns peaking around a corner can opt to shoot while everyone else watches and deny cover saves.

calypso2ts wrote:

insaniak wrote:
Or, to nitpick a little, you need more than 50% of the models that are actually shooting in your unit to be able to see more than 50% of the target unit.

This is a great point, for example two plasmaguns peaking around a corner can opt to shoot while everyone else watches and deny cover saves.

In the plasma gun example, can the rest of the squad fire, giving cover saves for the boltguns because more than 50% of the firing units grant cover, but there would be no cover from the plasmas because all the plasmas can see?

-cgmckenzie

If the rest of the squad fires, they get cover from the plasmas as well.

Cover is granted on a unit by unit basis: either the units firing allows a cover save to be taken, or it doesnt.

Ok, that sucks but sorta makes sense.

-cgmckenzie