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Hey guys, I'm trying my hand at making a 2k daemon list that I plan to just really have fun with (but of course would like to win). Never played a game with them and plan on borrowing the models until I know exactly what I would like to play.

Without further ado, here is the list (A/B for grouping):

(A) 2x Tzeentch Herald - Chariot, Icon, We are legion, Master of Sorcery, Bolt of Tzeentch

(B) Skulltaker - Chariot

(B) The Masque

(A) Bloodcrushers x 5

(A) Fiends x 5

(A) Flamers x 5

(A) Pink Horrors x 5 - Changeling, Bolt of Tzeentch

(A) Plaguebearers x 7 - Chaos Icon

(B) Pink Horrors x 5 - Bolt of Tzeentch

(B) Plaguebearers x 7 - Chaos Icon

(B) Daemon Prince - Mark of Tzeentch, Bolt of Tzeentch

(B) Daemon Prince - Mark of Nurgle, Cloud of Flies, Daemonic Flight

(B) Daemon Prince - Mark of Khorne, Unholy Might, Daemonic Flight



Please let me know what you think, even if you think this list is terrible

Ditch the princes.

Look at the other Daemon posts I've commented on today and read their advice. I play Apoc Daemons along with 40k and I know them like the back of my unholy hand.

Your list looks well organized, ill give you that. BUT! like i've said in EVERY post so far, ditch the princes. Grinders are horrific monsters that reign absolute deamonic horror upon your foes.

With 13 13 11 walker with possessed you are assured that they do some damage and take twice what they recieve. They fire strong templates with no scatter, can vomit somthing stronger than a HF, have the harvester and if that wasnt enough they have a ST 10 AP 1 shot that will annihilate a LR in one shot. Only down side is the BS 3.... misses a bit but thats what the Phlegm is for... who needs a BS when you can haulk an explosive lougie upon your enemy...

If you want some help from a serious daemon player please feel free to PM me. I have EVERY model for the daemons and have used just about all the combos i can think of... and i love making lists so feel free to ask for advice anytime =]

Just wish I had more fiends..... so mean......so fast....

I do think soul grinders are amazing, but I always have terrible luck with walkers and vehicles yet have great luck with monstrous creatures (hence why my main army is Tyranids... <3 Trygons)

I always seem to have more fun with Daemon Princes because I can customize them however I want (plus I feel I modeled them really cool).

Just curious though, why do you think the princes are so terrible. I looked through some of your posts and I only see that you say to always take a grinder.

Here's the thing with Soulgrinders: They're certianly more capable, but they're also huge. Remember, if any part of it lands on impassible terrain or another unit, you've got a mishap. In an Apocalypse game, things are much more spread out, but in smaller games (even 2K point games) terrain is usually more dense and units are much closer together. Daemon Princes have small(ish) bases and are more likely to arrive without error.

Why I advocate Princes and not Soul Grinders-

Daemon Princes have a good Ballistic Skill
4 wounds, Eternal Warrior
Smaller footprint for deepstriking
Better options for customizability
Everyone and their mother is carrying melta-guns



As for the list-
1. Never take Flamers in units bigger than 3 since they are a deepstriking suicide unit.
2. Bloodcrushers belong in units of 4 with full cmnd options for wound allocation nonsense
3. Fiends should be in units of 6. I personally like Might to help with their rend on vehicles and again a wound allocation nonsense target
4. The Masque is very conditional, not an independent character, and more often than not will get shot to pieces. Easy kill point for opponents and rarely helpful
5. Skull Taker isn't a model I much care for, but if you insist on using him he's best on a Juggernaut with the Bloodcrushers
6. Lose the Icons on the Heralds as they can't have that many options

Nurgle DP are CC monsters - wounding on 2+ with a re-roll, I 6 and T6 is brutal against most foes. That said, I try to run 2 shooting units at least in my heavy space. You have some shooting, but a Tzeetch Prince or a SG there is very good. SG are dirt cheap, immune to small arms and are equally as good at breaking AV 11 as a DP and better at breaking higher armor.

I disagree a bit with the DP assessment though by krisken...

DP and SG are equally as good vs AV 11, SG better at AV 12+. why? Hit 2+/Pen 4+ ==Hit 4+/Pen 2+

A DP with 4 wounds is more survivable than a SG against S8 shooting (but not by a lot, especially if you can get cover). Meltas are everywhere but if they are taking a 6" melta shot at a SG then the rest of your Daemons are about to murder someone.

For the other comments..

1 - I have seen 5 work, but 3 is usually enough to wreck almost anything.
2 - I agree here and it lets you keep an icon down
3 - I concur on 6 Fiend units, UM is optional but nice
4 - The Masque is really really good, with so many fewer kp than most other armies, if she makes the difference you are probably getting your butt kicked.
5 - I agree that he is better on a Jug, if he had a cavalry statline then I would say chariot, but alas!
6 - I agree.

Fair enough, Calypso. In small games I would be more inclined toward Soul Grinders, but in anything 1,500 points or over I'll take a Daemon Prince every time (unless it is a themed Khorne army, in which case Khorne DP's suck).

Not sold on Masque. The Herald of Tzeentch on a chariot is a way more attractive option in my mind.

The main thing that I am confused about is why take unholy might on a single model in the fiend unit? I don't see why the +1 S really makes a huge difference because they are already S 5 and rending.

Also, I have heard everywhere that the Skulltaker is better on a juggernaut but nobody has ever really said why. I know that he is an IC when on a juggernaut, but it seems like with this many targets available that the extra wound and decision that the opponent has to make is better.

ALLLLLLRIGHTY THEN......

Firstly Krisken.... Daemon prices are expensive, yes customizeable but for that amount of points take a greater daemon. They hit harder, cost about the same if you're going to make them worthwhile, have same if not more wounds, most have unique abilites that make them more useful than princes and your point on ballistic skill..... DO THEY FIRE ST8 AP 2 LARGE BLAST TEMPLATES OUT THEIR NOSES! ..... NO!....

and I agree, anything that is allowed to get that close to your grinder with a melta is worth killing it, because you failed to keep it safe. You hang back with a soulgrinder, unless, you occasionally feel like DS right behind vehicles and ripping them to pieces with your 2 DCC weapons. =] (Adds for a nice daemonic touch)


Secondly, Rabid, for 10 pts why not take an extra ST? I mean, it just makes your life that much easier and with 6 attacks on the charge its just worth that extra 10 pts.

Thirdly, I do agree with calypso, nugle DP are pure brutality, BUT!... they do not get that ohhh so lovely FEEL NO PAIN. Thats the deal breaker. If your going to throw down *does the calculation* 260 pts on a worth while daemon prince of nurgle.... you should look else where... you COULD be fielding 2 soulgrinder for that.

Fourthly, the comments (krisken)

1. They are not suicide in DS in 3... thats tiny. you can EASILY squeeze 5-8 in a pack. I never field more than that in a single squad.

2. All fielding a unit 4 BCs will do is make a lot of noise and draw a lot of attention. Sure you can allocate wounds... ohh 8 of em.. whupdee.. Why not field 8 BCs and allocate 16 wounds? If your short on points sure, 4 BCs make good target practice but 8 will get your opponents nerves running. Daemons tactics are simple. Make your enemy face hard decesions. Make him think about what to bring down. Flamers? Crushers? Those nasty fiends? By doing so it will demand that your opponent will have to focus fire on ONE target to bring it down, otherwise something will still be standing and rather pissed.

3. Agree... i wish i had 6 =]

4. Im split on the topic... She'll draw fire from somthing but with a freaking 3+ iv save.... shes like a tzeentch greater daemon.. roll one dice at a time and probability will be on your side... unless its a volly of bolters... but in that case you may have saved more points than having those shots thrown at flamers and wiping out them. (only takes 3 to break even almost) Yes its a gamble, but for the points for points value and what she can do... I would say that getting to make your opponents dance into nice tight templates is WELL worth 100 pts... hands down. She can dance them into the crushers, the flamers, the letters, the fiends, the grinders... you pick.

5. Agree. I own one and i converted a beastmen chariot for him to ride on. But even with 4 wounds... hes still not that great. Field him with crushers sure, but other than that hes worthless... rending on 4? not worth the HQ slot or the paint.

6. Heralds arent that great, cept masque and scribes. I mean a scribe and 3 other tzenntch heralds running around shooting tanks its just plain fun... and thats the title of the post. Icons should only be put on things you know will survive. Like plaguebearers and crushers (in large groups)

.....*breathing heavily*......*pant*..... *pant*...... okay.


Sorry had to get that off my chest. lol

Krisken wrote:
Not sold on Masque. The Herald of Tzeentch on a chariot is a way more attractive option in my mind.

I am not disagreeing with you on this one necessarily, I look at the Masque as a utility option that can promote multi-charges and speed up slow bloodcrushers. Template promotion for flamers is a nice gimmick but really, the Masque and pavane in general is better at putting an opponent in compromising positions.

A SG has an AP 3 large blast, not AP 2. As for SG vs DP I think a SG is better than any but a Tzeetch prince overall for its shooting, but that is a preference call.

A Fiend with S6 can ID T3 models, you can put one wound on it and then put the rest on 'normal' fiends so you lose fiends 1 wound more slowly. it also penetrates AV 10 on a 5 and glances on a 4 which increases the liklihood of damage results.

Skulltaker is not a great choice on a chariot because he is too slow and not any tougher than on a BC. He is also not any more killy and has a slightly larger footprint.

You cannot play wound allocation tricks with an 8 man BC unit and given the base size of these they are a really large footprint to drop in.

I put an icon on a Slaanesh herald since it has 5 wounds, T4 and can go to ground for a 3+ if I need it around. It also keeps fire away from killier units. the problem with icons on BC imo is that your opponent wants to shoot them anyway.

Yup, 160 point Tzeentch Prince shooting platform is my preferred choice.

@XsoulgrinderX- They're only expensive if you load them up with useless crap. If you are using a shooting platform, there isn't really any need for wings (which are hugely overpriced).

1. Yes, you can take big units of Flamers, but at Toughness 4 and 1 wound, they are going to die very quickly. When they drop only 3 will be able to use the flame template, so why take more when they are so expensive? You're asking to lose the advantage you gain by even using them- killing more points than they cost.

2. You take 8 bloodcrushers and you're just ASKING for them to be tied up in combat with a Dreadnought. Against an idiot, yeah, take 8 bloodcrushers. This, however, is not a good plan if you want to be able to use this list as an all-comers list. A canny player will always have a plan for a deathstar unit- especially when it is as slow as Bloodcrushers.

3. Glad we agree on something

4. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. In my experience she has never been worth it, and again is simply fodder for the shooting (she's a great target for all those stupid bolters from drop pods and rhinos no one seems to know what to shoot at with)

5. Yeah, I see a lot of people taking him, but just don't understand it. To me he does what bloodcrushers already do.

6. Tz Heralds are fantastic. All the other ones are meh. They are T4, 5 wounds, 4++ save and are great at shooting, something a Daemon army generally lacks.


I've probably spent way too much time talking daemon tactics with other players, tbh.

I totally agree with a Tzeentch DP as a shooting platform, but honestly the wings help. I have fielded one before and let me say the wings help get around vehicles to a nice side or rear shot. Plus those wings will help getting into assault with the vehicle your shooting... it is a MC afterall. yay extra pen.

Crushers in groups of 8 leave a footprint the size of a small building, but they're most definetly tough enough to drop in the open areas of a battle field and survive. As for the dread naught, they can kill it on the charge, especially if one has rending. But yes i've seen my crushers tied up with a chaos naught, but on the plus that renders the dread inert as it'll have nothing to do but swing away with what few attacks it has. If thats the case, fleet your grinder over there are rip those puny CC weapons off and then say "now thats what your walker wishes it was" to your opponent.

Flamers in big groups are risky, and should be kept on the small side since they cost so much in points. But when they bounce up from behind cover they can do some damage in numbers, against horde armies like orks espically. I do hate that they cost so much but then auto glancing on 4+ is a big advantage agsint mech based forces.

Ill admit crushers in groups of 8 are hard to manage, and i kinda forgot about those large bases so getting all 8 in CC can be kinds hard especially in a bottle neck situation.

But.... the masque could help with that situation moving them all around. The advantage of moving an enemy closer could prove invaluable against armies like tau or some of those maries that like to hang back and bolt their way through the game.

Krisken wrote:Yup, 160 point Tzeentch Prince shooting platform is my preferred choice.

@XsoulgrinderX- They're only expensive if you load them up with useless crap. If you are using a shooting platform, there isn't really any need for wings (which are hugely overpriced).

1. Yes, you can take big units of Flamers, but at Toughness 4 and 1 wound, they are going to die very quickly. When they drop only 3 will be able to use the flame template, so why take more when they are so expensive? You're asking to lose the advantage you gain by even using them- killing more points than they cost.

2. You take 8 bloodcrushers and you're just ASKING for them to be tied up in combat with a Dreadnought. Against an idiot, yeah, take 8 bloodcrushers. This, however, is not a good plan if you want to be able to use this list as an all-comers list. A canny player will always have a plan for a deathstar unit- especially when it is as slow as Bloodcrushers.

3. Glad we agree on something

4. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. In my experience she has never been worth it, and again is simply fodder for the shooting (she's a great target for all those stupid bolters from drop pods and rhinos no one seems to know what to shoot at with)

5. Yeah, I see a lot of people taking him, but just don't understand it. To me he does what bloodcrushers already do.

6. Tz Heralds are fantastic. All the other ones are meh. They are T4, 5 wounds, 4++ save and are great at shooting, something a Daemon army generally lacks.


I've probably spent way too much time talking daemon tactics with other players, tbh.

+6, and another +6 for your other post.

I would put the Skulltaker on a Juggernaut and run him with the Bloodcrushers as anti-Dreadnought insurance. He's not going to be very good against them and that unit will still suffer if they get assaulted by one but at least they'll have a model that can hurt it.