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This is a discussion I was having with a fellow person and another that I will take away there names. Tell me if I am right or wrong in this. Warning its kinda long, but you might actually find this amusing even if you don't agree with me or do agree. Please give some true feed back with maybe gw tournaments or GTs

<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - you can do combi-flamer and combi-melta gun on one guy?
<1> - yep
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - pos?
<1> - pos?
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - positive
<1c> - yep
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - true-grip?
<1c> - you can only fire one at a time
<1> - but you can replace the bolt pistol and chain sword
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - strange
<1> - it's nice
<1> - very dual purpose
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - usually it says replace bolt pistol and chain sword with (insert weapons here)
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - never seen it in all my games vs space wolfs
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - or on any other type of models before
<1> - it's even in army builder
<1> - which is what like 99% of tournaments accept
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - army builder thought it was 20pts for another another splinter cannon on a venom also
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - and its 10
<1> - yeah that's what they have updates for
<1> - it says in the book
<1> - replace bolt pistol and/or close combat weapon with
<1> - ...
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - givem me just one sec
<1> - sure
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - if its like the plan space marine codex then you can only pick one the reason they say bolt pistol and/or close combat weapon is for is to replace the chain sword for a power weapon, powerfirst,etc and the bolt pistol for a plasma pistol,etc a combi flamer is a 2handed weapon same with melta, etc so what im trying to say is that A)It doesn't work, B)Army Builder messed up or C)Do they have true grip
<1> - does it say you can only pick one in the faqa/
<1> - *faq?
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - there is no reason for a faq
<1> - what i'm saying is that its not like you are firing both at once
<1> - you have two
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - your the only one that i have ever came across that has done this out of lets say 15+ space wolf players iv played agains 10 of reach are in rl and 2 which went to tournements and 1 that came in 11thn out of 150
<1> - i've done it at 5 tourneys
<1> - but i mean
<1> - 2 were local
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - i understand completely about the firing only once and not at the same time
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - but if they don't have true grip they can't hold both
<1> - i just haven't ever seen anywhere
<1> - where it says you can't have 2
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - it kinda comes hand and hand
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - no pun intended
<1> - lol
<1> - in the dark angels
<1> - faq
<1> - it allows you to take as many weapons as you can possibly buy
<2> - You can't say that about holding both, because Grey Hunters have a bolt pistol, chainsword, and bolter.
<1> - let me show you
<2> - They don't hold all of them at once.
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - there new
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - and there elite "space marines"
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - space marines have a bolt gun and then a bolt pistol on there side
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - same with almost every space marine chapter
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - chaos has a close combat weapon cause it states it
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - now this would mean to have both you would have one litearlly on your back since you could only shoot one gun not evening using the flamer/melta or w/e
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - meaning if this rule did apply
<3 > - Whats the problem?
<1> - @3
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - then you if wanted to could shoot both guns at the same time to get 2 shots and 4 rapid fire
<1> - I want to have 2 combi weapons
<1> - as per the codex
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - on onz guy
<1> - ^yes on one guy
<3 > - Thats legal
<3 > - "And/or"
<1> - That work Pink?
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - so let me just get this straight really quick
<3 > - Key words, if it said, "May replace Bolt Pistol/CCW for _____"
<1> - I would normally just not bother
<1> - but I'm trying to run as close as possible to my 2.5 k list
<1> - which has them
<3 > - I mean, I'll leave it up to you guys, since I'm not playing.
<3> - But I'm not sure they can fire both at the same time.
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - this is the first time and only time this discussion has ever came up
<1> - learn something new every game
<1> - lol
<3 > - Well jsut because it hasn't come up doesn't mean it's illegal.
<3 > - I'll post a thread on Dakka for you if you'd like.
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - sure
<3 > - Alrighty.
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - but before that 3(guysname)
<2> - Most people don't run them that way. You can put meltagun and flamer on Blood Angels honor guard.
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - just listen to this really quick and tell me if this makes any since
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - using just the space marine codex for example
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - tactical squad sergeant may replace his boltgun and or bolt pistol with:
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - _____
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - so im going to do a combi melta, and a power fist
<3 > - Yea.
<2> - But look at the command squad
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - you can't...
<2> - They can take both a flamer and meltagun.
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - he doesn't have true grip
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - to hold a combi-w/e you need both hands
<2> - Exactly
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - a powerfist isn't a hand
<2> - He has one at his side
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - you can only take pistols with a power fist and close combat weapons
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - because if you don't have true-grip you can't hold a 2handed gun
<1> - the true grip rule
<2> - You can take a combi and powerfist
<1> - has been deleted basically
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - lol
<1> -
<3 > - Captains can take a boltgun and Power Weapon
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - im not laughing at that "1" at "2"
<1> - in the dark angels codex you can take
<2> - True Grit
<2> - I sold
<2> - is old
<1> - 2 pairs of lightning claws
<1> - a plasma pistol
<1> - and a storm bolter
<2> - Space marine command squads can take lightning claw, melta gun and storm shield
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - how can you even shot..
<1> - the faq even clarifies it
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - please show me this
<1> - well you can only shoot one weapon at a time
<1> - so you shoot your flamer
<1> - as normal
<3 > - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/371252.page#2846789
<1> - then you switch to the melta
<1> - if you want to use it
<3 > - Cant shoot simul according to this guy
<3 > - But you can take both
<1> - thanks "3"
<3 > - Well wait for more people
<1> - lol
<1> - i mean not that dakka justifies
<1> - all that is 40k
<2> - You can never shoot two weapons
<2> - That isn't the issue.
<1> - but you can take more than one
<2> - Exactly
<1> - in multiple instances
<3 > - I know bacon, I didn't know if he said that.
<3 > - Brb
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - im sorry this is really not making any since to me what so ever, if this is true im just blown away
<1> - it's all cool
<1c> - I'm not offended
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - i dont believe it...
<3 > - Back
<3 > - Just remember, you dont take the extra CCW attack
<1> - I just want to practice with it, as it's what I"m planning to use at that tourney
<1> - of course
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - 1
<1> - I mean I don't care about 1 more cc attack
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - look at it like this
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - of coarse you dont
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - before either of you say anything
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - look at it from this perspective
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - I'm going to take a two handed weapon, but im going to take another 2 handed weapon and swap it out when im done with the other one, on top of that im going to have a power fist so when i do get into close combat i can do some damage, or i'll pull out my power weapon so i don't punch last..... does that really make any since at all
<3 > - I'm confused at the relation from CCW to Bolters
- Sending game info...
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - how many hands does a ccw use?
<3 > - 1
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - how many hands for a bolter
<3 > - 1/2
<3 > - 1 or 2
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - explain 1
<3 > - Captain
<3 > - Shoots with one hand
<1> - or even in your instance
<1> - wolf lords can take
<1> - wolf claw
<1> - and thunderhammer
<1> - you can use either one
<1c> - switching out after assault phases
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - wolf lord is a lord
<1> - so you can hit first one round
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - way different
<3 > - What makes him different
<3 > - They are all marines
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - hq?
<3 > - And?
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - lol
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - its like im talking to people about different politics or relegion their only seeing it from one point of view
<3 > - I just fail to see why only HQ's would be able to
<3 > - XD
<Pinkfr3akz21(2kpm)> - hqs are way way way different

Then "1" left either probably got fed up with me...

So any "true" insight on this matter?

There is no "hands" except for a couple of 3rd edition codexes. A C:SM sarge (for example) can have two combi weapons.

There is no "true grip".

HQ are not different.

+1

The and/or statement seals it. The sarge cannot, however, fire both in the same shooting phase, just as he cannot fire both the bolter and the combi-weapon simultaneously. You must choose which weapon you're firing each shooting phase.

Actually how many "hands" it takes to use a weapon still exists in the main rulebook FAQ. What's gone is the restriction on only having two single handed or one two handed and one single handed weapon.

Ghaz wrote:Actually how many "hands" it takes to use a weapon still exists in the main rulebook FAQ. What's gone is the restriction on only having two single handed or one two handed and one single handed weapon.

not at all true..

There is no definition as to which are which aside from a very basic: Everything is 1-handed, unless it says it isn't; and guns are not 1 handed CCWs unless they are pistols(Or a burna that didn't fire, but then it is not a gun)

Kommissar Kel wrote:There is no definition as to which are which aside from a very basic: Everything is 1-handed, unless it says it isn't; and guns are not 1 handed CCWs unless they are pistols(Or a burna that didn't fire, but then it is not a gun)

I am not sure I agree with that... I see nothing that says everything is 1handed unless said otherwise. This is the logic that gets people trying to combine rifle buts with pistols for dual CCWs.

nkelsch wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:There is no definition as to which are which aside from a very basic: Everything is 1-handed, unless it says it isn't; and guns are not 1 handed CCWs unless they are pistols(Or a burna that didn't fire, but then it is not a gun)

I am not sure I agree with that... I see nothing that says everything is 1handed unless said otherwise. This is the logic that gets people trying to combine rifle buts with pistols for dual CCWs.

Nkelsch, the FaQ says it all.

All CCW's are one handed, As are pistols as Kommissar Kel points out.

(Please re-read Kommissar Kel's post about guns where he says "guns are not 1 handed CCWs unless they are pistols")

The FaQ says:

Q: What weapons count as single-handed weapons for the
purposes of gaining additional attacks in close combat? (p37)
A: All pistols, close combat weapons and any weapons
that are specifically stated as single-handed weapons in
their rules

From: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1620222a_40k_Rulebook_version_1_2.pdf

I stand by my statement. It is the removal of the restriction that allows a model to carry two combi-weapons in the example given. The FAQ clearly shows that how many hands a weapon takes to use is still a part of the rules. In addition, if the restriction was still in place, it would still be in the codices.

Plus, why would they keep a restriction for a rule that supposedly does not exist? Wouldn't that just cause confusion? It's never been how many hands a weapon takes to use that limited you, it was the restriction.

So in a nut shell you can or cannot have two combi weapons on one character aka combi-flamer combi-melta on one guy

Oswitz wrote:So in a nut shell you can or cannot have two combi weapons on one character aka combi-flamer combi-melta on one guy

think your missing a ?

Simple fact is you can take as many weapons as you have options to take weapons.

if a guy has 2 Combi-weapons then he simply has 2 bolters and 2 single shot special weapons.


neither are singlehanded CCWs so he doesn't get +1A for having 2 CCWs.

Oswitz wrote:So in a nut shell you can or cannot have two combi weapons on one character aka combi-flamer combi-melta on one guy

You can, as long as you are allowed to buy both weapons. Wolf Guard CAN buy two combi weapons, for example

However if you are an Infantry model, you can ONLY fire one weapon at a time, so can only fire one combi-weapon per turn.

Alright thanks for clarifying that for me