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Just wondering what is the most optimal melee loadout for Vanguard Vets..

The sgt gets a free power weapon (+pistol =3 attacks) but can trade it for a glaive (looses the pistol but a re-roll to hit)

However if the Sgt was getting a Storm shield he'd loose the +1 attack from the pistol so in this case is it better to give him a glaive (re roll to hit) or a lightning claw (re-roll to wound) seeing as neither can be combined with a pistol?

Basically re-roll to hit vs re-roll to wound & a 3++ OR 3 attacks...

Having an extra attack and a pistol shot is always better than a reroll.

Storm Shields are expensive, but you probably want at least 1 on your vanguard vet squad, and in this case, the lightning claw is far better. You'll almost always be hitting on a 4+ in close combat, but there is plenty of times when youll be wounding on much worse. Also remember lightning claws reroll ALL failed rolls to wound, I assume a glaive only rerolls a single failed roll to hit, like a mastercraft.

The rest of the vanguard squad be putting out a lot of attacks, so take the storm shield and the lightning claw man.

One thing, that i kinda miss...

How you want to use 2h weapon with a shield?

Jaon wrote:Having an extra attack and a pistol shot is always better than a reroll.

Storm Shields are expensive, but you probably want at least 1 on your vanguard vet squad, and in this case, the lightning claw is far better. You'll almost always be hitting on a 4+ in close combat, but there is plenty of times when youll be wounding on much worse. Also remember lightning claws reroll ALL failed rolls to wound, I assume a glaive only rerolls a single failed roll to hit, like a mastercraft.

The rest of the vanguard squad be putting out a lot of attacks, so take the storm shield and the lightning claw man.

ALL failed to wounds you say... hmm...

so my sgt is better with Pwep + pistol or LClaw and shield but not glaive and shield...

But the glaives are sexy... dammnit!

Thanks :-)

BloodTzar wrote:One thing, that i kinda miss...

How you want to use 2h weapon with a shield?

*sigh*

Play 40k some more. This ended years ago with 4th edition.

The optimum loadout?

probably dual LCs and a couple of guys with TH/SS for busting tanks.


the real optimum load out is nothing. as in no VVs. at all.

Grey Templar wrote:The optimum loadout?

probably dual LCs and a couple of guys with TH/SS for busting tanks.


the real optimum load out is nothing. as in no VVs. at all.

This is not true for Blood Angels. For Vanilla armies, yes, VVs are terrible. With only D6 scatter, though, they can be an excellent addition to an army based on DoA.

OP, a Glaive is generally going to be worse than a Lightning Claw, for the reasons mentioned. I've run the numbers here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/359068.page

I actually compare a Power Weapon + Pistol to a Lightning Claw, but Power Weapon + Pistol does more damage than a Glaive + whatever, so my results are still valid.

Glaives can make comparisons tricky, since it's hard to get the math right. Master Crafting is worse than getting an extra attack, but as the base number of attacks increases, the value of the Master Crafting approaches the value of an extra attack, as more attacks raise the probability of getting at least one miss, at which point the re-roll is worth just as much as an extra attack.

Yes, but if you're taking storm shields then 2 handed weapons or special weapons loose a lot of the drawback becase you wouldn't be taking the 2nd weapon anyway.

Essentialy a VVet sgt has 2 power weapons attacks (3 on the charge) with either: a re-roll to hit (glaive), re-roll all to wound (claw) OR an additional attack from pistol+powersword.

My argument is that the more I hit with the better off I am although statistically the claw helps more due to the way the damage table is. I'm probably going to give my sgt the 1handed glaive so if it sucks it can be a power weapon instead.

the problem with Stormshields is that the model begins to get very expensive.


without jump packs, we are looking at an easily 50 point model with a weapon upgrade and the stormshield.

If you're going with a Storm Shield on the Sergeant, then the best investment would be the cheaper power fist or thunder hammer. If you just want to pick a free upgrade, then the lightning claw is the way to go. The Glaive Encarmine represents a slight nerf on the Blood Angels' close combat options, if anything.

OK. Thanks guys. It's a pity as the glaive encarmine looks cool. Unless I use the swrody ones as a power sword - but then giving the sgt a SS gimps that so a PF or LC is better...