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Are TL Rokkits on Deffkoptas pretty much mandatory?
I know everyone runs the suicide kopta with rokkits and buzzsaw but I was thinking about running a squad of 5 koptas with just the TL shootas against my friend's nids to clear some of the gaunts but on the other hand rokkits do great against MC and warriors although more pricey.
Is there a place for such a squad or is it just a waste of points?

I take them as ablatave wounds for my biker boss, and they tend to do really well no matter how I equip them. I'll give them rokkits if I have the spare points, but if not, they can still fulfill their purpose as a meat shield without them.

I run my Deff Koptas without Rokkits but with a Buzz Saw, still I find they work best on their own as a suicide unit. In your case, there are way more options in the ork codex to destroy gaunts, I dare to say that anything in the codex can do it well, except for Grotz. Therfore I don't think it is a good idea to shoot the gaunts, rather charge them. Though, I must admit that I never tried Deffkoptas in squads of more than one so this is all theory-hammer

Well people don't normally recommend large squadrons of koptas since at 5 per squad you're in danger of suffering from poor leadership rolls very early. For dakka in your regard you could almost get away with bikerz in large mobs. So much dakka!!! The alternative (and potentially the better option overall) is skorcha buggies. As that Orky voiceover from DoW2 says: "GET THE BURNAS! ITS ROASTIN TIME!"

I like the idea of a bike boss attached to a squad of koptas. He benefits from their wounds, they get a slight Ld boost. The unit packs a CC punch too. I don't have many bikers at all (3 I think from the starter set) but AOBR is loaded with koptas and maybe they are a decent alternative to the bike. I've run suicide koptas before and they are great but I have 10 of them and thinking about a creative way of utilizing them without all my point going into rokkits and buzzsaws

Perhaps taking 5 with bigbomms? Go for a large outflank and launch a bombing run on some unsuspecting unit. Or go for the 5 big shootas and use it as an infantry slayer. Or 5 rokkits for mass anti-tank.

Kopta options are rather limited...

Juvieus Kaine wrote:Perhaps taking 5 with bigbomms? Go for a large outflank and launch a bombing run on some unsuspecting unit. Or go for the 5 big shootas and use it as an infantry slayer. Or 5 rokkits for mass anti-tank.

Kopta options are rather limited...

HA! I would love to outflank and bigbomm his outflanking genestealers! I have also read somewhere on here that you could spread out a squad of koptas around a rhino in such a way that if you were to get a wrecked result all the exits would be blocked and the contents destroyed... sounds tricky though

Hjkr13 wrote:

Juvieus Kaine wrote:Perhaps taking 5 with bigbomms? Go for a large outflank and launch a bombing run on some unsuspecting unit. Or go for the 5 big shootas and use it as an infantry slayer. Or 5 rokkits for mass anti-tank.

Kopta options are rather limited...

HA! I would love to outflank and bigbomm his outflanking genestealers! I have also read somewhere on here that you could spread out a squad of koptas around a rhino in such a way that if you were to get a wrecked result all the exits would be blocked and the contents destroyed... sounds tricky though

You have to block everything, if just the exits are blocked, he could still emergency disembark. You can't really prevent that with just five koptas.

The reason why nobody takes Deffkoptas with big shootas is that bikers are better in almost every aspect. You trade 1 wound, always ignoring terrain and 18" range for a 4+ cover, ignoring terrain on a 2+, the option of a nob, and additional attack(bikers have 2CCW) and an actually usable size of units. Basically the nob with klaw and boss pole tips the scale heavily towards bikers, if koptas could take nobz, they would be much better. Losing 18" range seems much, but keep in mind that you can move 12" before shooting, so you can reach most stuff on the table anyway.

Koptas are probably the second most reliable rokkit unit we have, fielding them without seems like a waste. Every army you are facing will have a target that you can shoot with rokkits to a great effect.

I thought that only Jump Infantry ICs can join Jump Infantry? So a Warboss can't join a unit of Deffkoptas. Or have I got myself confused?

Very confused. First of all deff koptas are jet bikes, not jump infantry. Second an IC can chose to join whatever unit he likes, as long as it's not a vehicle squadron or only ever consists of one model. An infantry IC joining jump infantry would force the jump infantry to move 6" at all times, as the speed of the unit is the speed of the slowest model.

Sorry, of course they are. But I thought a model could only join a unit of its own type?

No, there is no such restriction. You usually lose many of the advantages of those unit types, but it is perfectly legal to do. There are even rules for monstrous creatures joined to regular models, which would be kind of pointless if they weren't allowed to join in the first place.

Rokkits are a must IMO. Sure, you're only BS2 but it is TL and gives the orks some pretty cheap anti tank power. Buzz saws are gd but kitting out the whole squad with them can mean a pretty heavy loss, should the squad be wiped out.

Juvieus Kaine wrote:Perhaps taking 5 with bigbomms? Go for a large outflank and launch a bombing run on some unsuspecting unit. Or go for the 5 big shootas and use it as an infantry slayer. Or 5 rokkits for mass anti-tank.

Kopta options are rather limited...

Now THAT is an idea worth looking into. 5 BigBomm templates on a squad. Even against MEQs that would cause some wounds for sure

I've heard of people fielding Koptas as anti-infantry, and in truth, I think that's one of those things that people forget in their obsession with Meta. 2 wounds, that's 2. What other models have 2 wounds? Nobs. What can you do with Nobs? Wound Shenanigans. How do you do that? Wargear differentiation. Oh, guess what? Deffkoptas can get individualized wargear!

First off, the Twin Linked Big Shoota that's standard on the Kopta is identical to the Dakkaguns, except, get this, it's twice the range. That, and the Scout move, means you'll be able to outrun and outgun most units.

Wound Shenanigans. Bigbomms on two or three, two with rokkits, two with Buzzsaws. You've basically got a flying Nob Squad with extra pickles.

Thing is, you'd need to play them rather un-orky. Stay out of close combat for a bit, to whittle whoever down a lot with your guns. Turbo boost over your target squad, and Bigbomm 'em, then assault whoever's left. If they get hits in, differentiate, take your armour saves, and if you need to, try to Hit and Run (which they have) to shoot them some more. Don't think of them as stronger or tougher boys, thing of them as slightly weaker Nobs. Similarly equipped Biker Nobs are about twice the cost, have less range, lower toughness, higher Init, Str. and more attacks, don't ignore terrain, can't take Rokkits or Bigbomms, and can't Hit and Run.

Stikk a Warboss on Bike with them (skilled rider) and Presto, cheap Nob Bikers that don't take up an Elite or Troop slot.

I like the wound shenanigans idea of Deffkoptas, and there are advantages to them over Nobs...but Nobs (and all Bikers) have that 4+ cover save at all times that makes them much more resilient to things like Lascannons and missiles, which can instant death both a nob and a Deffkopta. And really, for 10 more points, having that cover save is good enough, not to mention the better strength, initative, attacks and wargear. And a painboy, too.

Oh, and if I remember right, adding a warboss to a Deffkopta squad will get rid of their Hit and Run, which sucks. Hmm, at least Deffkoptas would be a better SHOOTY unit, so if you're going THAT route, then good luck to ya!

Anvildude wrote:I've heard of people fielding Koptas as anti-infantry, and in truth, I think that's one of those things that people forget in their obsession with Meta. 2 wounds, that's 2. What other models have 2 wounds? Nobs. What can you do with Nobs? Wound Shenanigans. How do you do that? Wargear differentiation. Oh, guess what? Deffkoptas can get individualized wargear!

First off, the Twin Linked Big Shoota that's standard on the Kopta is identical to the Dakkaguns, except, get this, it's twice the range. That, and the Scout move, means you'll be able to outrun and outgun most units.

Wound Shenanigans. Bigbomms on two or three, two with rokkits, two with Buzzsaws. You've basically got a flying Nob Squad with extra pickles.

Thing is, you'd need to play them rather un-orky. Stay out of close combat for a bit, to whittle whoever down a lot with your guns. Turbo boost over your target squad, and Bigbomm 'em, then assault whoever's left. If they get hits in, differentiate, take your armour saves, and if you need to, try to Hit and Run (which they have) to shoot them some more. Don't think of them as stronger or tougher boys, thing of them as slightly weaker Nobs. Similarly equipped Biker Nobs are about twice the cost, have less range, lower toughness, higher Init, Str. and more attacks, don't ignore terrain, can't take Rokkits or Bigbomms, and can't Hit and Run.

Stikk a Warboss on Bike with them (skilled rider) and Presto, cheap Nob Bikers that don't take up an Elite or Troop slot.

Three weaknesses to that idea:
- Tankshocks will run them off the board. Bye-Bye 300 points. This made me drop those big squads after using them a lot.
- Anything S8 instant-kills koptas without save(they are very hard to hide), nobz are always in cover and can take cybork. Nobz also have the same toughness, not lower.
- Hit and run is an initiative test. So other than on a 1 and 2, not hit and run for them.

Nob bikers also ignore terrain most of the time, unless you roll a 1 and then fail your 5++ save, and a nob without any upgrade other than the bike costs 10 points more than a kopta without any upgrades, and can even be made scoring. They could even take combi-rokkits if you wanted.

Right. Forgot about that.

Still, could be fun, and wouldn't be expected.

Nobody expects the Orkquisition!