Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So a friend of mine had this idea and I wanted everyone's opinion of it here on dakka dakka.
Now, we all know that there are a million posts and pictures online about how to bootleg your own bits. Make your own molds from GW parts for stuff like meltaguns and other bits that you just don't get enough of, out of the box.
But what if say, you found a seller on ebay who was selling such bits created in a similar fashion except he was selling them in standard squad sprues (squad of 5 plague marines or squad of 5 wyches for example). Now, they won't be an perfect out-of the box quality but they're selling at half the price. And I don't mean half the GW price, I mean half the warstore/ebay price. So probably at around 40% of retail price.
Would you buy it? And just how (il)legal is this practice?
Now, please no blatant "LOL YOUR slowed ITS ILLEGAL ENJOY BUTTRAEP IN JAIL" 12 year old posts. If you think its illegal, then what would be some ways to get around it?
For example, it could be listed as "Plague Marines" which I imagine would be taken down by GW pretty fast but then what would be the difference between a guy selling normal retail boxes of plague marines on ebay? We could, for example, post them up as "Used unpainted unassembled ( ) Plague Marines with damages" with a description of: "due to exposure to a warp rift (or something equally silly), the molecular composition of these models may not be what they were originally or what GW uses/used to make their models."

Remember, this is on ebay ONLY. Or other shady forms of vending where the law can go shove one up its cherryhole along with GW's extortion tactics.

EDITS: clarification, rewording, spelling, grammar, ect. Main idea is the same.

Wouldn't this be stealing GW's IP?

AFAIK it's against Dakka rules to discuss such practices.

Oh really? That's a shame. I know discussing things like sharing pdf dexes are in violation but I've seen plenty of do-it-yourself molding tutorials where people are replicating GW parts.

Does it become illegal when we discuss financializing it?

terranarc wrote:
Does it become illegal when we discuss financializing it?

Hit the nail on the head, if you are doing it for yourself its all well and good, nobody even needs to know
when it comes to making money from an established companies IP, that's when the lawsuits start flying

Those who bootleg stuff dont understand how business works and why it hurts them.

Plastic wrote:

terranarc wrote:
Does it become illegal when we discuss financializing it?

Hit the nail on the head, if you are doing it for yourself its all well and good, nobody even needs to know
when it comes to making money from an established companies IP, that's when the lawsuits start flying

Great, now I gotta find a way around that too.

LunaHound wrote:Those who bootleg stuff dont understand how business works and why it hurts them.

I'm sorry, but did you just ask me to feel bad for Gamesworshop™? Especially when they've just released a line of crap quality "Fine"cast models that they claim to be the best in the world while simultaneously raising prices (as if prices aren't unbelievably stupid already). Hell, if I could hurt Gamesworshop™'s business while doing this, it'd be all the more reason to do it.

Gamesworshop™ has been pretty much extorting its loyal customers due to the inelastic nature of 40k models.

Buddah said and wrote:Those who make presumptuous assumptions presume too much.

Did i ever say GW is a bad company? Yes they are pretty awful, but they must have some redeeming qualities or else why are you still playing?

Are you honestly telling me, if GW is a "nice" company today, you'll not recast?

Dont believe you at all.

Recasting is stealing, im not here to judge you for stealing, only here to tell you they are both the same.

terranarc wrote:
I'm sorry, but did you just ask me to feel bad for Gamesworshop™? Especially when they've just released a line of crap quality "Fine"cast models that they claim to be the best in the world while simultaneously raising prices (as if prices aren't unbelievably stupid already). Hell, if I could hurt Gamesworshop™'s business while doing this, it'd be all the more reason to do it.

Gamesworshop™ has been pretty much extorting its loyal customers due to the inelastic nature of 40k models.

Hah, stealing from the evil, rich corporation, to give to the poor, mistreated customer.

How noble.

Get out of here.

Coppying the items exactly, and using their names would be IP theft.

But a reasonable question is.. where do you draw the line? I mean, If I copy a model as a whole, that's pretty egregious. But when it comes to a bit, like a gun, or a hand. GW would likely not have a legal leg to stand on if I started making plastic legs and arms and guns, that fit GW models and looked just remotely similar. I have not intention of making a bits company that offer stand ins for GW products. But I am curious how much IP protection they can get away with.

As much as I dislike some of GW's policies and decision making the OP is way off beam.
You either really don't know the practice is as kosher as a bacon buttie at a Barmitzvah, in which case No to all the above.
Or you do already know in which case you live under a bridge waiting for the trip trap of the Billy Goats Gruff.

Big Billy Goat Gruff needs buff the butt of this thread into the river so we can all live happily ever after.

Pretty sure you're gonna get this post shut down quick...but yes, it's illegal. I looked into it at one point, and it's actually in their legal section of the website. Technically, it's also illegal to make more than one copy of a custom figure using their parts (like a full custom unit of the same model). It's pretty ridiculous, and they even admit they don't enforce it at all, because so many people are big on conversions, but never-the-less, it IS in their legal section-or at least it was 2 years ago when I looked.

Pretty sure the thread goes against Dakka policy
not sure Yakface wants to have to explain why his site is promoting piracy.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Pretty sure the thread goes against Dakka policy
not sure Yakface wants to have to explain why his site is promoting piracy.

There are 2 DCM on this forum that openly recasts GW weapons.

LunaHound wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Pretty sure the thread goes against Dakka policy
not sure Yakface wants to have to explain why his site is promoting piracy.

There are 2 DCM on this forum that openly recasts GW weapons.

They don't necessarily sell them however...

I did...but by accident >_> if anyone is considering it, they suck.

terranarc wrote:

Remember, this is on ebay ONLY. Or other shady forms of vending where the law can go shove one up its cherryhole along with GW's extortion tactics.

QFT

Think of it this way: If someone puled this stunt on you, would you approve? And if you are already admitting that it is shady and illegal, why would you be so obtuse as to ask how to get around the law?

Just buy the $%@!$ models and quit trying to make a simple issue very complicated and expensive for yourselves...

So, you are buying a computer game, and you find out when you get it, that its a pirated copy. Or you buy a movie and find out that it's pirated.

Thats what you are essentially saying, Is pirating a product legal?

Obviously, not legal.

If the ad does not state CLEARLY that it's recast models, you could also be sued for misrepresentation.

Yeah, you don't have any agenda at all... /eyeroll
If you don't like GW's prices, don't buy their stuff. Organize boycotts, whatever. Both legal.
Selling "bootleg" models is illegal in most countries, as violation of copyright laws. No matter how you word your auctions, it's still illegal.
I suggest that you "get around it" by buying GW models or by making your own sculpts, casting them, and selling them as generic scifi/fantasy figures. You'd have the copyright, in that case.
Also, you may want to go look up the actual definition of "extortion". You sound like a raving idiot.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:As much as I dislike some of GW's policies and decision making the OP is way off beam.
You either really don't know the practice is as kosher as a bacon buttie at a Barmitzvah, in which case No to all the above.
Or you do already know in which case you live under a bridge waiting for the trip trap of the Billy Goats Gruff.
Big Billy Goat Gruff needs buff the butt of this thread into the river so we can all live happily ever after.

What the.......
0:50 for the video below. Seriously wat the heck are you saying.



========Now for the serious responses==========

LunaHound wrote:Did i ever say GW is a bad company? Yes they are pretty awful, but they must have some redeeming qualities or else why are you still playing?
Are you honestly telling me, if GW is a "nice" company today, you'll not recast?
Dont believe you at all.
Recasting is stealing, im not here to judge you for stealing, only here to tell you they are both the same.

Fair enough but I mean, I love 40k. It's true I love 40k. Unfortunately, loving 40k doesn't mean I love GW. I love the idea of demon corrupted elite troops versus whatever. I love CSM.
Now, I don't know anything about their operating cost or their business model and you know what? They're probably doing exactly what any other business would be doing.
But as of this moment, I have nothing to benefit by continuing to support them. Personally, I think they're destroying the 40k universe by gearing it less towards the 12-18 and more to the 12-16. I imagine it will be 12-14 soon.
Now, lets say GW was not run by the Nazizombie council of infinitely evil CEOs it was today, would I even attempt this? Maybe, maybe not. I know I wouldn't have quite the same inspiration to do so though.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

terranarc wrote:
Remember, this is on ebay ONLY. Or other shady forms of vending where the law can go shove one up its cherryhole along with GW's extortion tactics.

QFT
Think of it this way: If someone puled this stunt on you, would you approve? And if you are already admitting that it is shady and illegal, why would you be so obtuse as to ask how to get around the law?
Just buy the $%@!$ models and quit trying to make a simple issue very complicated and expensive for yourselves...

You mean if I was GW? Or if someone was trying to sell such bits on ebay? If someone tried to sell decently recasted plague marines on ebay for like 10$, hell yeah I'd buy them. And did you even read the OP? Why would I buy the models? Aside from making molds from them.

Ysclyth wrote:Coppying the items exactly, and using their names would be IP theft.
But a reasonable question is.. where do you draw the line? I mean, If I copy a model as a whole, that's pretty egregious. But when it comes to a bit, like a gun, or a hand. GW would likely not have a legal leg to stand on if I started making plastic legs and arms and guns, that fit GW models and looked just remotely similar. I have not intention of making a bits company that offer stand ins for GW products. But I am curious how much IP protection they can get away with.

But then... can I sell the bits off as a "bits" package? That could say, coincidentally be assembled to form a squad of 5 plague marines?

timetowaste85 wrote:Pretty sure you're gonna get this post shut down quick...but yes, it's illegal. I looked into it at one point, and it's actually in their legal section of the website. Technically, it's also illegal to make more than one copy of a custom figure using their parts (like a full custom unit of the same model). It's pretty ridiculous, and they even admit they don't enforce it at all, because so many people are big on conversions, but never-the-less, it IS in their legal section-or at least it was 2 years ago when I looked.

Huh... that sounds like a contract thing we have to sign in order to be subjected to. I mean, none of that is labeled on the box or in the instructions. For all intents and purposes, I could be buying a tonka truck. I think GW underwriters are stupid.

Doctadeth wrote:So, you are buying a computer game, and you find out when you get it, that its a pirated copy. Or you buy a movie and find out that it's pirated.
Thats what you are essentially saying, Is pirating a product legal?
Obviously, not legal.
If the ad does not state CLEARLY that it's recast models, you could also be sued for misrepresentation.

I see what you're saying but I won't be listing them as "OFFICIAL GW MARINE SCOUTS" or anything like that. I wouldn't say they were official at all and would probably include something like "These parts are NOT what you get out of an unopened GW XXXXX box"

Xarian wrote:Yeah, you don't have any agenda at all... /eyeroll
If you don't like GW's prices, don't buy their stuff. Organize boycotts, whatever. Both legal.
Selling "bootleg" models is illegal in most countries, as violation of copyright laws. No matter how you word your auctions, it's still illegal.
I suggest that you "get around it" by buying GW models or by making your own sculpts, casting them, and selling them as generic scifi/fantasy figures. You'd have the copyright, in that case.
Also, you may want to go look up the actual definition of "extortion". You sound like a raving idiot.

hmmm...
mm....
HMMM...
ok 3 points:
+Selling them as generic scifi stuff could work, good idea. Really, whats GW going to do? Sue me over craigslist? Over ebay? I'll just get my account disabled.
+What agenda? You have seriously either misread the OP or have seriously misinterpreted my intentions because you have severely overestimated your clairvoyance. I love 40k, I love money. Now I do both.
+http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/extort

Discussion of violating ip is one of those bad ideas.