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Okay, so I got the Open Fire introductory set. I am WWII history buff, mainly due to doing a Masters Degree in Strategic Studies (CRANFIELD), I also have an OSPREY book on the SS which features all the Camo and uniforms in colour so I am set on a SS Panzer Division. I am trying to build a Army where I can change over the Tanks so I can swap to Mid-War period, anything earlier is not possible.

My thoughts at the moment is to go for PANZER LEHR DIVISION (Earth & Steel) or DAS REICH DIVISION. DAS REICH has the advantage of being used in Market Garden, plus I did some work on Wilhelm Bittrich so I am inclined towards DAS REICH (Despite the dispicable reprisal massacres they conducted in Oradour-sur-Glane).

So any advice? I was looking at an AUFKLARUNG SS SCWADRON with all 251 Half track infantry, an AT Gun Section, and 4 - 5 Panzer IV in Divisional Support. Should I grab some Artillery for an all round combined Arms force? Or change list and try to grab 3 PANZER IV's, Some AAA, and some field Artillery (Ala Earth & Steel page 69) ? Any advice?

I don't have the books with me atm, so I'm going off memory.

First, if you're interested in fielding an SS force from Market Garden you should look at the "A bridge too far" book. However, the compnay organizations in that book aren't orthodox and reflect the various kampfgruppes around arnhem rather than any specific unit. There is an aufklarungs force representing Grabner's KG, but it only includes one platoon of armoured infantry, the rest are mounted in trucks.

As for a FoW company, a PzIV H troop should be able to handle most of your AT needs. What you really want your guns for is smoke. Most German players I know take a handful of nebelwerfers for that. AA is always a good idea for a german force.

2nd SS Panzer Division 'Das Reich' was not involved in Market-Garden.

Bittrich was in command of II SS-Panzer Korps at the time of Market-Garden.

Only the following units from II SS-Panzer Korps took part in that Spetembers fighting;

SS-Nachrichten-Abteilung 102
SS-Werfer-Abteilung 102
SS-Sanitäts-Abteilung 102
SS-Nachschubtruppen 102
9.SS-Panzer-Division Hohenstaufen
10.SS-Panzer-Division Frundsberg

At the time Das Reich was behind the West Wall re-fitting after heavy losses in Normandy and the retreat over the Seine.

Sorry Big P, your quite right. Wilhelm Bittrich did command the 2nd SS Panzer Division Das Reich 1941 - 1943, and the II. SS-Panzerkorps (Hohenstaufen & Frundsberg Divisions) so he is linked to both. I meant to write in "Hohenstaufen" not "Das Reich", mea culpa as "Das Reich" was not in the Arnhem Area at the time but in Germany re-fitting after the Falaise debacle as you wrote.

Back on track, Hohenstaufen is probably a better bet as they were in both counter attacking in Normandy and also Market Garden. I haven't seen the Market Garden stuff so I had no idea they reflected the hodge-podge nature of the battle groups thrown into the fight.

Hohenstauffen is an interesting division to build.

If you need any info on them in Normandy, let me know. I have their divisional returns for the period.

I did Arnhem as part of my MA so have a fair amount of info on that too.

9th SS are covered in a PDF modification to the 2nd SS list in Cobra (now Earth & Steel). This PDF is due for an update soon.

I'm also thinking about knocking up a quick guide to playing 9th SS using Earth and Steel as I play 9th SS.

http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=747

If memory serves there's a 9th SS Aufklarung list in one of the Market Garden books (Not Hell's highway, the other one, A Bridge Too Far?)

Are there any significant weaknesses to SS PGR's? I am guessing being swamped by Infantry, or Armoured units/tanks, or being pounded into the mud by artillery, because of having a lot of points on 251 Half tracks and the fact that you are limited in your weapons and Divisional Support Platoons.

I have a few of the OSPREY series of books on Falaise, Panzers and Waffen SS Troops on my book shelf and the artists impressions of SS Troops Uniform will be invaluable. So any final pearls of wisdom before I commit to the 9th.

Just the inherent problems of fielding fearless veteran troops - they cost so much you will be forced into picking holes that cannot cover everything. AT, AA, anti-horde, anti-personnel. You have to cover a lot of it with the best troops not necessarily outfitted with the best to-the-point equipment. Try fielding tanks, infantry, some area effect artillery plus some flak units to cover against airpower.

DAaddict wrote:Just the inherent problems of fielding fearless veteran troops - they cost so much you will be forced into picking holes that cannot cover everything. AT, AA, anti-horde, anti-personnel. You have to cover a lot of it with the best troops not necessarily outfitted with the best to-the-point equipment. Try fielding tanks, infantry, some area effect artillery plus some flak units to cover against airpower.

This.

I've got a Late War Totenkopf list that I run, and I built it to maximize the number of teams that I have on the table. And even then I barely get half a dozen platoons (including a section of two Sturmtigers, which are more for my personal amusement than any useful results on the battlefield).

SS lists will almost never have as many troops on the table as their opposing lists do. So you need to go in looking to maximize the potential of the troops that you bring.

mwnciboo wrote:Are there any significant weaknesses to SS PGR's? I am guessing being swamped by Infantry, or Armoured units/tanks, or being pounded into the mud by artillery, because of having a lot of points on 251 Half tracks and the fact that you are limited in your weapons and Divisional Support Platoons.

I run an SS Panzerkompanie of StuGs and Panthers so I'm not really up on SS Panzergrenadiers. I also run Heer Panzergrenadiers and outnumbering can be a problem, much more of a problem than failing morale checks. One of the things Earth and Steel fixes is the cost of 'Hanomags', they're certainly more viable than they used to be.

Okay guys, I have settled on 9th SS "Hohenstaufen". Got bored twiddling my thumbs waiting for next months paycheck so have painted the 2 STuG's in what I believe was a close approximation of the 9th's Camo in Middle to Late 44 (according to the Website below!)

http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/thefgmforum/showthread.php?3370-StuG-III-IV-Camouflage-Patterns

(Started with Iyanden Dark Sun, then ink washed, then some detailing and Camo and finally some dry brushing with Deneb Stone, not quite finished, need some weathering powder and Decals).



Oh I've only done One, the other is just base coated and Washed.