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As the title states I'm looking to get into FoW and thus far I like the idea of building a Polish force for some early war battles. I'm being drawn to the idea of a Polish Tank Company for the cheap price and because they seem to be a pretty solid choice. I have an idea for a list and at the price I could be done building it by the end of summer if everything goes my way.

Anyway, how does the list below look?

Polska Kompania Czolgów

Główne kwatery (Headquarters):

Rozkaz Przedsiębiorstwa (Company Command): 50pts.
1x 7TP jw Company Command Tank

Plutony Walki Przedsiębiorstwa (Company Combat Platoons):

Pierwszy Pluton Zbiornika (First Tank Platoon): 195pts.
1x 7TP jw Platoon Command Tank
3x 7TP jw Platoon Tanks

Popierają Pluton Zbiornika (Second Tank Platoon): 195pts.
1x 7TP jw Platoon Command Tank
3x 7TP jw Platoon Tanks

Trzec Pluton Zbiornika (Third Tank Platoon): 195pts.
1x 7TP jw Platoon Command Tank
3x 7TP jw Platoon Tanks

Popierają Plutony (Support Platoons):

Pluton Rozpoznania (Recon Platoon): 145pts.
1x TKS Platoon Command Tank w/ Roman Orlik
3x TKS Platoon Tanks
1x TKS 20mm Platoon Tank

Pluton Kawalerii (Cavalry Platoon): 270pts.
1x Command Rifle/MG Team w/ PZInz 222 Halftrack
8x Rifle/MG Teams w/ 4x PZInz 222 Halftracks
2x Anti-tank Team

Pluton Działa Antyzbiornika (Anti-tank Gun Platoon): 140pts.
1x Rifle Command Platoon w/ PZInz 222 Halftracks
3x Anti-Tank Teams w/ PZInz 222 Halftracks

Artyleryjski Pluton (Artillery Platoon): 310pts.
1x Command Rifle Team w/ Polski-FIAT 621 Truck
1x Staff Team
4x 75mm wz. 1897 Guns w/ Polski-FIAT 621 Truck

I've got some advice from the forums on the FoW mainsite, but does anybody from Dakka have any advice?

Sorry, I do not play Early War.

I like what you have got here and I think it is a good army but I have only just started as well so I would enquire more with more qualified early war players.

I think some infantry would come in handy for defending objectives, as well as assaulting objectives in difficult terrain.

Looks very solid indeed, but as the poster above me said it needs more infateri for holding objecives and so on. Except for that is looks very good, Exept for that I dont see any AA in your list? That could be an issue if your opponet brings Stutkas or even Me 109s to the field, you would be mangeld quite fast. But except for that it looks good.

His list does have 8 bases of infantry in it though with now real way to fit more. Also, the Poles can't get anti-aircraft weapons. Not to mention that the Germans don't have the option for anything other than Stukas in early war. Try reading the list and the Blitzkrieg book before making comments on other people's lists.

Canadian 5th wrote:His list does have 8 bases of infantry in it though with now real way to fit more. Also, the Poles can't get anti-aircraft weapons. Not to mention that the Germans don't have the option for anything other than Stukas in early war. Try reading the list and the Blitzkrieg book before making comments on other people's lists.

Well if I had the book I would, and no need to get snappy!

I understand, but why not at least mention that fact? No need to give advice when you haven't played the period. Honestly, I can see why people don't use this forum for FoW. Their home forum is far more helpful...

Canadian 5th wrote:Also, the Poles can't get anti-aircraft weapons.

WTF?

The certainly did have AA guns!!! Plenty of Bofors... They even made the damn thing in their own factories!!!





Thank god I dont play FOW...

Big P wrote:

Canadian 5th wrote:Also, the Poles can't get anti-aircraft weapons.

WTF?

The certainly did have AA guns!!! Plenty of Bofors... They even made the damn thing in their own factories!!!

Thank god I dont play FOW...

Yeah wouldn't want to play a game that generally has decent, well written rules and balanced forces...

While the Poles did, historically, have AA capabilities in their forces they were not readily doled out or available everywhere in the field. The armored companies really had none, which is what this force list was based off of anyway. Hence, no AA available. At the start of the 2nd world war the Allied forces were not really prepared for such direct and effective aircraft tactics that the germans were using. It took some time before AA defense became a big part of their standard battle doctrine and started showing up in AA machine gun mounts and heavier AA guns from 20mm up to 3" guns. Early on the Allies also had very limited air support as well which is why the early blitzkriegs were so easily effective.

Skriker

It's not even that the allies had less air support than the Germans, though over Polland any AA would have a massively uphill battle to make much of a dent, it was also that the Germans just focused on the point of break through in a way nobody had seen before.

Anti-aircraft doctrine was well established since Douchet's treatise on airpower in the 1930s.

BEF anti-air defence in France in 1940 consisted of brens on AA mounts (each Battalion had an AA defence platoon), 40mm Bofors and 3" AA guns. It did not take time for them to 'show up'. The defence of calais was famous for the actions by a 3" AA battery, both in the air and at ground targets.

The problem was one of reaction to threats and the ability to coordinate AA batteries correctly and effectively.

The Poles had plenty of AA units,.

It is reckoned that Polish AA units shotdown 40 Bf109s alone during the short campaign and upto a possible 240 of all types. Thats around 5% of all planes utilised by the Luftwaffe were destroyed. These are actual crashes and does not include aircraft damaged, that made it back, and were subsequently scrapped. Thats a tally rate similar to that seen over France the following year, though granted sightly lower.

But Polish AA units were deployed well forward. They were even used to defend against ground attacks such as at Ulanow Bridge on the 12th September.

I dont mind if its done to make a game 'balanced' but dont try and pass it off as 'historically' accurate. Its a game after all. But then wars are rarely balanced...

I will leave the last word to Dr. Mike Bennighof:

"Polish units were comparatively well-equipped with anti-aircraft guns as well, fielding about 300 Bofors 40mm guns, with most of them made in Poland. They were very effective against low-flying aircraft and used by many nations throughout the war, and potentially deadly against the tanks of 1939."

Big P wrote:Anti-aircraft doctrine was well established since Douchet's treatise on airpower in the 1930s.

BEF anti-air defence in France in 1940 consisted of brens on AA mounts (each Battalion had an AA defence platoon), 40mm Bofors and 3" AA guns. It did not take time for them to 'show up'. The defence of calais was famous for the actions by a 3" AA battery, both in the air and at ground targets.

The problem was one of reaction to threats and the ability to coordinate AA batteries correctly and effectively.

The Poles had plenty of AA units,.

It is reckoned that Polish AA units shotdown 40 Bf109s alone during the short campaign and upto a possible 240 of all types. Thats around 5% of all planes utilised by the Luftwaffe were destroyed. These are actual crashes and does not include aircraft damaged, that made it back, and were subsequently scrapped. Thats a tally rate similar to that seen over France the following year, though granted sightly lower.

But Polish AA units were deployed well forward. They were even used to defend against ground attacks such as at Ulanow Bridge on the 12th September.

I dont mind if its done to make a game 'balanced' but dont try and pass it off as 'historically' accurate. Its a game after all. But then wars are rarely balanced...

I will leave the last word to Dr. Mike Bennighof:

"Polish units were comparatively well-equipped with anti-aircraft guns as well, fielding about 300 Bofors 40mm guns, with most of them made in Poland. They were very effective against low-flying aircraft and used by many nations throughout the war, and potentially deadly against the tanks of 1939."

I was referring to allied air coverage, though I know you're not aiming that at me. I also, now that I look at it, realize that no list in Blitzkrieg has Bofors 40mm cannons anywhere, plenty of 75mm, 47mm, 25mm, and 20mm but nothing in 40mm at all. The good thing is, this is likely to change as online lists and new books come out.

Was alot of Bofors around... Like all games I suspect they add and upgrade as they get used.

Still wouldnt wanna be Poles with no air defence!

Big P wrote:Was alot of Bofors around... Like all games I suspect they add and upgrade as they get used.

Still wouldnt wanna be Poles with no air defence!

With the FoW rules the effects of air on the table top seem less drastic than they would be IRL with many lists being lucky to see air power arrive more than a few times in a game. Even when it does arrive it is often limited to either a pair or even a lone plane. For all of that air power can certainly be devastating when it does hit shredding tanks and pinning infantry with ease.

I have found airpower to be of dubious usefulness in FoW. I never really use it myself anymore, except to throw in some sporadic fighter support for 25 points in my early war lists. Smart setup makes it difficult for planes to affect more than 1 target on the table top per turn really limiting their usefulness. Had one german player in our last league who used stukas and was crushing opponents with them. For some reason no one spread out their units at all on the table. The first time I played him after he added the planes to his list I spread out my tanks until I was on top of his forces. All his planes did the entire battle was destroy a single tank. In successive games his planes had about as much impact. Even in 1750 point battles I was able to spread out my 11 platoons on the table during setup so that planes or artillery couldn't hit more than 2 stands/vehicles at a time.

Skriker


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Big P wrote:I dont mind if its done to make a game 'balanced' but dont try and pass it off as 'historically' accurate. Its a game after all. But then wars are rarely balanced...

I will leave the last word to Dr. Mike Bennighof:

"Polish units were comparatively well-equipped with anti-aircraft guns as well, fielding about 300 Bofors 40mm guns, with most of them made in Poland. They were very effective against low-flying aircraft and used by many nations throughout the war, and potentially deadly against the tanks of 1939."

My knowledge of early war AA defense is obviously lacking...mea culpa... I stand corrected.

Skriker