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So the situation: on last game I shot with template (grotzukas) at unit (space marines) next to building (ruins) which was occupied (scouts). The template scatters on to the building (ruins) and I was going to claim a hit against the building (6 strength vs 10 armour) but my opponent has said I can’t as the template did not hit any of his units …. His 2nd argument was: “I intend to hit the unit not the building …..”

My argument was that the template actually hits the building and does not have to hit any unit …. It can be glanced or pen as per RBR (rules of transporting units)

Q. does the hit vs building are resolved only when the template hits the occupying unit? Do I have to intend to hit the building to claim damage to it??? For me that doesn’t make sense…

First off - its a blast marker. Templates are the tear drop

Secondly - the Building is a valid target, when occupied by an enemy, so your shot can perfectly validly scatter onto the building

Thirdly: you can NEVER hit the occupying units with a blast marker, as they are embarked. THink of buildings as static vehicles...

Was it a BUILDING or RUINS?

They are two separate entities with different rules.

Buildings: You cannot target any embarked troops*, but you CAN shoot at the building, hoping to bring it down and force them to leave it (if you wreck or destroy it, it becomes ruins with the embarked troops OUTSIDE of it).

Ruins: You MAY NOT target the ruins, but MAY shoot at any troops located within it (LOS dependent), but the troops gain a cover save**

* Template weapons excepted. These may be fired through any of the building's declared "fire points" and will deal d6 hits on embarked models.

** Template weapons, will of course deny this cover save.

The fact it had an AV suggests a Building.

Or that they were a little confused about the rules for buildings and ruins, backed up by the fact they he referred to it as both.

Potentially.

Also at AV10 its quite a weak building! A little better than an AV9 shed, however....

Ok let’s clarify this one, it was a half ruined building (agreed before game that due to being 50% destroyed is Armou 10) , 3 stores with balcony ,on page nr 83 of RBR it says how to resolve the hits form blast or flamers, but thanks for reminding me about this: the occupied building should be treated same as transport (as we agreed before the game it’s the building I should get my hit resolved)

At Nosferatu1001- English is not my first language, but fire template or blast template is form logical point of view it’s still just a “template”. Might be different rules for the different templates but this in different part of the story: P

Its ok - GW manage to occasionally reference Blast "templates", however if you check the BRB it should say "blast marker" and "large blast marker", and not "blast template"

So, if you were playing it as an INTACT BUILDING, aka NOT a ruin (I would call it "semi destroyed" to avoid using the term "ruin" anywehere near it) then you were perfectly able to target the building, or even scatter into the building - it is in effect an enemy unit when occupioed by an enemy.

god.ra wrote:At Nosferatu1001- English is not my first language, but fire template or blast template is form logical point of view it’s still just a “template”. Might be different rules for the different templates but this in different part of the story: P

Perfectly understandable. The reason this is brought up as often as it is is because there are specific rules for templates, and even though 99 out of 100 people who refer to blast markers incorrectly still understand the difference, there is 1 that get confused.