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Testing new waters and a few new units I have....

HQ
Chaos Lord, MoK, Deamon Weapon Bloodfeeder, Melta Bomb.

Troop
10 Khorne Bezerkers, Champ, Power Weapon, Rhino.

Troop
10 CSM, x2 lass cannon, Champ, Power Weapon, Rhino.

HQ
Typhus

Troop
10 Plague Marines, Champ, Power Weapon, Combi-melta, x2 melta gun, Rhino.

Troop
10 Thousand Sons, Bolt of change, Rhino.

Hvy
Defiler, x2 close combat upgrade.

Hvy
5 Havocs, x2 auto cannon, x2 missile launcher.

Hvy
x2 Predators w 2 hvy bolter sponsons.

A list I a testing on a Dark Elf army this week end, I believe it shall do very well.

First off, that list is illegal. You can't have 2 Lascannons in the same squad, and you appear to have 4 heavy choices.

You have a bit of a split with fielding both 2k sons and Plague Marines. The Sons excel at resisting Power Weapons and such, while Plague Marines are good against everything but.

I think you may want to decide which one you want to plan for.

I will not be the only one to say this, but the Bloodfeeder is a TERRIBLE weapon. Worst option in the Codex. Not only is it expensive and melee-only, it gives you a 33% chance to do nothing at all for a turn.

Chaos Lords are weaker in general than Daemon Princes, but if you want to use one, you're much better off with mok + Lightning Claws or a different daemon weapon. (Undivided is pretty decent)

Yeah, +1 DarkCorsair... your list is totally illegal.
+1 to Digi laser... Bloodfeeder is a bad weapon. Blissgiver is the best one IMO, but eternal warrior kills it. So to me that means a demon weapon is not really worth it.

Meltabombs are also... iffy. You get one attack with them, no matter how many attacks you normally get and you only hit walkers (Dreadnaughts) on a 6. Good luck with that...

Also, you want to get a jump pack or something else to make your Lord more mobile (Juggernaught?).

Typhus by himself... well, I see no Icons, so DSing him is iffy and he is meat if your foot slogging him across the battlefield. You really need a Land Raider for him.

No IoCG in that CSM squad? Zerkers in a Rhino? I like the Havocs, but they need IoCG. I like the Predators, but I don't like a lone Defiler.

I suggest this...

Replace the CSMs with 7 Plague Marines with a personal Icon, champ, Fist, 2 plasmaguns and a Rhino with combi-melta. 281pts

Replaces the Zerkers with 7 Plague Marines with a personal Icon, Champ, Fist, 2 plasmaguns and rhino with combi-melta. 281pts

Drop the 10 Plague marines down to 7 and add a personal icon for 5pts for 64pts saved.

Drop the 1kSons to 7 and add a personal icon for 64pts saved.

Drop the Defiler for 150pts saved.

Add a Icon of Chaos Glory to the Havocs for 10pts.

Add 3 Terminators, IoCG, Combi-melta x3, and Power fist. 125pts (all 3 have seperate equipment load-outs with one having a fist, one with an icon, and one bare). Add Typhus to this squad and DS them in.

You might want to look into dropping 1 berzerker and putting the lord in their rhino. He's good at CC so he fits in and now he isn't walking around while everyone else rides. I notice you've got Typhus and since he can't get in a rhino I don't know what you're going to do with him. He doesn't really fit the list imo.

HQ
Chaos Lord, MoK, Deamon Weapon Bloodfeeder, Melta Bomb.

Troop
10 Khorne Bezerkers, Champ, Power Weapon, Rhino.

Troop
10 CSM, 1 lass cannon, plasma gun, melta bomb,Champ, Power Weapon, Rhino.

HQ
Typhus

Troop
10 Plague Marines, Champ, Power Weapon, Combi-melta, x2 melta gun, Rhino.

Troop
10 Thousand Sons, Bolt of change, Rhino.

Hvy
Defiler, x2 close combat upgrade.

Hvy
5 Havocs, x2 auto cannon, x2 missile launcher.

Hvy
x2 Predators w 2 hvy bolter sponsons.

I plan to have my Bezerkers lead by my chaos lord and yes foot slog them along with my plague marines with Typhus, and defiler using the rhino's as cover or a distraction vs my foe. My Thousand Sons will travel in their rhino to hold the major objective, as my CSM, Havocs and Predatorsgive covering fire. As I said before using a mixed force vs Dark Eldar is a practice fight, I am trying out these new troops I just got. I know I will be popping Raiders left and right and having to engage Dark Eldar troops at a distance in the first 3 turns (thats how well I know my opponent).
By turn 4 I expect my Bezerkers w/ Chaos Lord, Thousand Sons w/ Plague Marines and Typhus , my Defiler will also assist in CC, to be in close combat as my opponent tends to charge head long into combat by then every game. I expect this and am well prepared for his tactics, if he changes and hugs cover then the game will last longer no problem as I am just having a practice game with him. I am trying my new units out to see what they can do, my Plague Marines with Typhus, Thousand Sons and Defiler are all new, I know no one but me likes the Bloodfeeder but my Chaos Lord has never let me down armed this way and my opponent fears him. Melta bombs in my units are a good anti-tank weapon if they get close, or take out a powerful char if given the chance thats why I take them. I have 4 hvy units because I have 2 HQ choices in my list and can have them if you look in the codex its legal if you choose that choice after all it will be a planet strike game I hear.

You should have clarified it was a planet strike game off the bat probably. Are you definitely defending? Because that's the only way you can have more than 3 heavies.

Assuming that is the case, it's not that good of a heavy selection. Especially at 2000 points.

You have no high strength long range fire power other than 2 missile launchers.

If you're going to insist on a defiler I'd suggest not going the close combat route with it as you will just waste a lot of time trying to fleet run with it when in all honesty AV12 is not that hard to take care of. Also the Defiler won't provide much of a distraction, especially since you are footslogging. The weapons used to take out the defiler wouldn't be used on your infantry anyway, and you are not presenting any other high toughness or armor targets for your opponent so every dark lance he has will be aimed at the defiler turn 1.

Footslogging is just not a great option with CSM. Our rhinos are dirt cheap. By opting not to take a rhino you only pick up maybe 2 or 3 more guys, which isn't enough to make up for the fact that they're moving at half the speed and will get chewed apart before they can do anything useful.

Thousand sons are fun and I love their fluff but they're insanely overpriced with the required sorcerer. AP3 also is a weird value because it's overkill for many races and with the high abundance of cover in 5th Edition they'll just be replacing 4+ armor with 4+ cover. Thousand Sons make a great tarpit assault unit though.

You can't use melta-bombs against characters, they're only for use against vehicles.

...you're going to... FOOTSLOG Berzerkers?!?!?!?!?!?!? No offense, but are you out of your mind? You're going against DE & apparently an opponent you have played before, so you KNOW how much AP3 he can bring to the table?! I'm sorry, but that's just asking for trouble. After he kills your defiler 1st turn & probably a Predator, he's going to turn all that weaponry to your footsloggers & pretty much end your side of the game. But, if you absolutely positively feel this is what you want, then I would say @ least put a fist on your Skull champ.

I don't really see the synergy in this list @ all, it really just looks like you bought a bunch of new units & decided to make an army out of them w/o really giving it much thought. Are you teleporting Typhus in? He can't ride in a Rhino - not only does the squad you want to put him w/ fill the Rhino, but he's in termy armor so he can't be in there anyway... If you teleport him in, there's no Icons anywhere, so it's risky & if you footslog him, well that's risky too. One lance shot & he's toast. The CSM squad seems out of sorts, not sure why you took the lascannon in that squad, tbh. Everything else says anti-infantry, but you put a lascannon in it...and meltabombs? Why, you gonna waste a turn of shooting a lascannon to assault a tank...? And where did this idea come from to use them against infantry...

Nothing in the Chaos codex allows for taking 4 HS slots if you have 2 HQ slots filled, not sure where you saw that, or who told you that, but that's just BS. Perhaps the mission may allow this, but there is no rule for this in the codex.

Sorry man, but this list is quite likely to get completely annihilated by DE...

~Vryce

I'd change the entire army to TS army...

You can rip him to pieces at the objectives...

Drop the defiler - get more havocs

Drop the zerker's

Take 2/3 normal CSM (ten man units with either flamers or meltas) in rhinos

2 units of TS sons to put on objectives

Two Daemon Princes with either MoN or MoT with Warptime and wings

My Defiler looks like a Brass Scorpion hence CC, but I can drop the CC arms for the reg weapon load out, with a Str 10 battle cannon, 2 hvy flamer and Reaper cannon. Thats used to support my Plague and Bezerkers in charge has always worked for me, as Chaos is strongest in CC. My Thousand Sons will grab an objective and hold at all costs with support from my CSM and Havocs as my Predators sit back blasting Raiders in tandom.
I may be insaine to footslog my Bezerkers, why you ask is? My Rhino's are used for cover and if I choose to have my units in Rhino's at the start of the game I will as I am 1 of the attackers in a 2 on one Planet Strike. My other opponent for some odd reason is a Blood Angel marine force, Sorry the dice decided that Chaos and Blood Angels join forces to assualt Dark Elves (a greater evil maybe).
Typhon will stay with my Plague marines if he can, he can not fit in the Rhino and I knw this nd Deep Striking him is risky (but I always take risks, gotta spill some blood to will a fight). as I said before in the last two posts I am testing out these new units (Plauge Marines w/Typhus, Thousand Sons and a Defiler) as I want to see how effective they are.
I only asked for imput on my choice (I have no wish to upset no one) as I just bought these models my opponents are allowing me to play them.

I think that if I get my Plague Marines to the closest objective Typhus can catch up, I know all about Splinter Cannons and there effect but I trust in the tuffness of my Plague Marines. My Thousand Sons have Inferno rounds and will also rush to an objective or support my Plague marines they are able to pop Raiders and troops alike easy enough. My Defiler, well is hvy fire support for these troops nothing else, as I like full 10-man units because I like full squads not partial ones.
My Predators and Havocs will give overall fire support with my CSM's protecting them against assault. I tend to have support troops such as these cover my assault troops across the board. I don't see why any one does not see the tactical advantage of this. My Bezerkers have a Chaos Lord with Bloodfeeder, why you ask is he has never let me down in close combat with what 3 att's,+1 att MoK, +2d6 Bloodfeeder thats at most 16 att's at str 8 instant kill, plus what, up to 21 attacks from Beserkers he may be leading. You are insaine not to want a unit like that footslogging or not. Yes they are vulnerable to shooting if I have them out in the open allowing them to be shot at. Hugging cover if unmounted or in Rhino if mounted and Chaos Lord running behind at 6 inches per turn, I laugh at some of you guys whinning "He can't keep up"...well tough he will do his best. I intend to have Blood Angels be my bullet bait and run out ahead of my best troops, attacking the bastion in a calculated assault on one point.
This is the best tactic to gain a victory in a Planet Strike game when we must Assault AP 3 weapons don't scare me as much as you think, and Dark Elves are over rated in my opinion and no were as near as scary as a Hoarde Genestealer force. Just as Grey Knight's weakness would be a Toa force, I have been playing WH40k since day one and know how to win. I will post a battle report after this encounter to let you know the out come. Just to prove you all that Chaos is the best CC force in the game.

My Bezerkers have a Chaos Lord with Bloodfeeder, why you ask is he has never let me down in close combat with what 3 att's,+1 att MoK, +2d6 Bloodfeeder thats at most 16 att's at str 8 instant kill, plus what, up to 21 attacks from Beserkers he may be leading

Err... how are you coming up with Str 8? Two handed means you can't have a second CC weapon, that is all. You roll 2d6 but if either dice comes up a one you don't get any attacks at all and auto take a wound with no armor saves (but you do get your Invuln save). You got a Str 4 power weapon with a wildcard flaw because you have a weapon potentially preventing you from getting any attacks off in every combat your in, plus putting damage on you. as long as you understand the risks, knock yourself out. But if you have been playing it wrong.... yeah, it is amazing.

As for the cover, 50% of your unit has to be blocked by LOS to give cover, so a single Rhino does jack and squat for you. Only way to pull it off is in a rhino wall but it looks like you only have 3 Rhinos for this job. Also, this is where having 10+ guys in a unit hurts you if this is your tactic... your not going to be spread out and any marker or template weapons are going to hammer you if your packed in trying to get cover, and since your not /in/ cover, you get no cover saves from these attacks. They now only have to see 6+ guys to ignore that cover save of 4+. That is not alot of cover against a mobile enemy like Dark Eldar.

And your fighting with Blood Angels doing a planetary assault? That guy is probably gonna be DSing /everything/ or outflanking everything. So no, your probably not going to have a wall of infantry taking shots for you. In fact, you might be the only force on the table turn 1. If anything, assume that rather than assuming he will be out in front of you.

Chaos is a assault army, no one is debating that, but it is far from the best. Demon, BA, and Assault Nid are hands down better. I am sure ork players and other marine players can put up a arguement, and I know I can make an Eldar assault army that would not be afraid of Chaos in CC. Chaos is overpriced and underpowered to really be an elite choice.

Read the rules on power weapons again because it doubles the users stra Chaos Lord Str is 4 so +4 is 8. I think you should get your facts strait before posting about things yuo dont know. As for the 2d6 and if I roll a 1 thats fine its a 1 in 6 chance I get a 1 per die and the only time I ever failed was playing Abadon and I never use him no more.
As far as cover saves it dun matter to me as a marine save is what +3 and who cares about a +4 cover save. And my Blood Angel partner never deep strikes during Planet Strike.
And for a Deamon army well its all to close combat and not enough fire support, might as well be marines without bolters. Blood Angels are not all that tuff there mostly fluff like Dark Angels. And assualt Nids are very good if played right, but most people don't play them right.
I am not a newbie at WH40K, as a matter of fact I was a test player for the game in 1986 in Anaheim, Ca. And I won that turney first place with my old chaos army. As far as Chaos being overpriced and under powered, thats an old wifes tale as I have not lost for 2 years strait every almost every weekend so I know what I am doing. And just bring any eldar as thats why I am practicing for in the firts place.....

LordWynne wrote:Read the rules on power weapons again because it doubles the users stra Chaos Lord Str is 4 so +4 is 8. I think you should get your facts strait before posting about things yuo dont know. As for the 2d6 and if I roll a 1 thats fine its a 1 in 6 chance I get a 1 per die and the only time I ever failed was playing Abadon and I never use him no more.

You're the one that needs his facts straightened out. Quote me the page in the rule book that says power weapons double the users str. I'm sorry, but I can't believe for a SECOND that you've been playing since day one. You don't have your rules correct, you don't seem to have any idea about cover or any of the other armies strengths or weaknesses - and to top it all off your spelling and grammer are akin to an 8 yr old. And you expect us to believe that you haven't lost a game in TWO YEARS?? Come on, even GT winners can't make a boast that over the top. And usually - only newbies claim not to be a newbie @ something. So anyway, good luck in your game & feel free to post a bat rep if you wish, but you've probably lost most of your readers on this anyway...

~Vryce

Vryce wrote:

LordWynne wrote:Read the rules on power weapons again because it doubles the users stra Chaos Lord Str is 4 so +4 is 8. I think you should get your facts strait before posting about things yuo dont know. As for the 2d6 and if I roll a 1 thats fine its a 1 in 6 chance I get a 1 per die and the only time I ever failed was playing Abadon and I never use him no more.

You're the one that needs his facts straightened out. Quote me the page in the rule book that says power weapons double the users str. I'm sorry, but I can't believe for a SECOND that you've been playing since day one. You don't have your rules correct, you don't seem to have any idea about cover or any of the other armies strengths or weaknesses - and to top it all off your spelling and grammer are akin to an 8 yr old. And you expect us to believe that you haven't lost a game in TWO YEARS?? Come on, even GT winners can't make a boast that over the top. And usually - only newbies claim not to be a newbie @ something. So anyway, good luck in your game & feel free to post a bat rep if you wish, but you've probably lost most of your readers on this anyway...

~Vryce

+1

The nurgle demon weapon is pretty good. Wounding everything on a 4+ ain't bad.

Nurgle weapon is good if that was my army theme I would use it but, I am more Khorne based and tank you Niosy Marine. As for the rule, read the rule book on power weapons its plain as black and white. And as for my win / loss come play me and find out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My bad just look, I mistook powerfists / claw rule for the power sword. Atleast the power sword ignores armor saves unless its an invul save, my oppolagies.

LordWynne wrote:Nurgle weapon is good if that was my army theme I would use it but, I am more Khorne based and tank you Niosy Marine. As for the rule, read the rule book on power weapons its plain as black and white. And as for my win / loss come play me and find out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My bad just look, I mistook powerfists / claw rule for the power sword. Atleast the power sword ignores armor saves unless its an invul save, my oppolagies.

Ok, I'll play you. You gonna be at NoVA?

Really, rather than saying that your list "is the uberist cheese der is!" you could possibly listen to our suggestions. I play in GTs with chaos, and sure some of the others giving you criticism are very good at them as well.

Now, for the list. Usually, I won't tell people this, however it's plain out terrible, even without the fact that it's illegal. I would suggest completely rethinking it. Also, some comments on your tactics:

LordWynne wrote: I plan to have my Bezerkers lead by my chaos lord and yes foot slog them along with my plague marines with Typhus, and defiler using the rhino's as cover or a distraction vs my foe.

You say you're playing against DE? No. Just no. Dark Eldar eat footslogging marines. Splinter Cannons, Disentigrators, any kind of Darklight weaponry, is death to marines. Read some of Dashofpeppers battle reports to see what I mean. Also, I don't think a rhino is large enough to provide cover for a defiler.

LordWynne wrote:My Thousand Sons will travel in their rhino to hold the major objective, as my CSM, Havocs and Predatorsgive covering fire. As I said before using a mixed force vs Dark Eldar is a practice fight, I am trying out these new troops I just got. I know I will be popping Raiders left and right and having to engage Dark Eldar troops at a distance in the first 3 turns (thats how well I know my opponent).

Again...sorry, but no. Popping raiders left and right? Engaging DARK ELDAR at a distance? If he knows anything about playing them, he'll ram them right down your throat first turn their on the board. Either he goes first and alphastrikes your lines, or he goes second and comes on 30" from reserves.

LordWynne wrote:By turn 4 I expect my Bezerkers w/ Chaos Lord, Thousand Sons w/ Plague Marines and Typhus , my Defiler will also assist in CC, to be in close combat as my opponent tends to charge head long into combat by then every game.

Because fragile space elves are going to charge right into combat against the best combat unit in the game. Right. Also, by turn 4? They should be there by turn 2. That's why they need to be mechanized. Also, there's no way you'll catch DE by footslogging it.

LordWynne wrote:
I expect this and am well prepared for his tactics, if he changes and hugs cover then the game will last longer no problem as I am just having a practice game with him.

So basically you're saying if he hugs cover you lose? You're relying on HIM to win YOU the game? Flawless logic.

LordWynne wrote:
I am trying my new units out to see what they can do, my Plague Marines with Typhus, Thousand Sons and Defiler are all new, I know no one but me likes the Bloodfeeder but my Chaos Lord has never let me down armed this way and my opponent fears him.

As has been said, 33% of the time he won't attack and will wound himself. Not very dependable if you ask me.

LordWynne wrote:
Melta bombs in my units are a good anti-tank weapon if they get close, or take out a powerful char if given the chance thats why I take them.

They don't have the AP1, only have one attack that can easily miss...also against DE, regular attacks can take out a vehicle more easily. And you can't use them on characters or any non-vehicle. Re-read the rules. I don't think your plastic dudesmen can strap meltabombs onto a space elf

LordWynne wrote:
I have 4 hvy units because I have 2 HQ choices in my list and can have them if you look in the codex its legal if you choose that choice

Er, say what? You don't get an extra heavy slot for having 2 HQs. Please tell me the page # where it says that.

LordWynne wrote:I am not a newbie at WH40K, as a matter of fact I was a test player for the game in 1986 in Anaheim, Ca.

Of course. Because the game came out in 1987. In England. And your profile says you didn't start wargaming until 1988.

I think you, sir, have been what is called either: owned, pwned or schooled

However if you want some advice (after I noticed you were fighting DE I've changed my mind) ditch most of your army, Take lots of strength 5/6 weaponry and ditch the zerkers and that bloodfeeder...

Take some slaanesh units (probably raptors with a sorceror or something) as your assault unit and watch out for wynches...

Get rhino's and lose the defiler and predators and take two units of 6 havocs with 2 ac and 2 ml and IoCG

Take a couple of ten man units of CSM with PW and meltas/flamers in a RHINO!

Then either two units of TS sons or two units of Plague Marines

This is like my previous comment but I've made it more DE killing (hopefully)

Please take this advice and not just spout nonsense about never losing!