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Do Tau Plasma rifles get two shots at 24"?

two shots at 12, one at 24

I thought with the wording in the Crisis suit rules that stated they can fire the most powerful weapons without penalty (this is before the 5ed. "Relentless" addition).....(ill find the passage and post when i have my codex handy)

Yes, but there is nothing that allows Rapid Fire weapons to fire two shots at 24".

In the case of a Rapid Fire weapon, a model with Relentless may move and still fire one shot at 24" or two shots at 12", whereas a regular model who moved could only fire two shots at 12".

The 12" range when firing twice with RF weapons isn't a penalty. It's just how rapid fire weapons work.

Relentless also allows the shooter to assault after shooting a heavy or rapid fire weapon. just FYI.

But yes 2 at 12 and 1 at 24.

They wrote the rule that way because most infantry, rapid fire weapons have a 24" range. When they wrote the rulebook, they completely forgot about the Tau and our 30" range rapid fire guns. (my opinion).

There's no reason to lock it in at 12" but that's the rule.

There is no indication that GW forgot anything. The 12" range on rapid fire weapons firing two shots is counterbalanced by the fact that they are now within charge range of the targeted unit in the next turn. Allowing Tau to fire two shots at 15" would upset this balance.

Or Krootox getting 2 shots at 24"

agnosto wrote:They wrote the rule that way because most infantry, rapid fire weapons have a 24" range. When they wrote the rulebook, they completely forgot about the Tau and our 30" range rapid fire guns. (my opinion).

The 12" range for the two shots on rapid fire pre-dates the original Tau codex. It's unlikely that they forgot about them for two editions afterwards. Particularly since they haven't been the only ones with RF weapons with a different maximum range... Eldar at one point had a RF weapon with a 12" max range, for example.

The 'they forgot about 'x'' argument would only hold water if the default rules for RF weapons ever referred to a 24" maximum range, which they don't. They just refer to getting a single shot at the weapon's maximum range.

insaniak wrote:

agnosto wrote:They wrote the rule that way because most infantry, rapid fire weapons have a 24" range. When they wrote the rulebook, they completely forgot about the Tau and our 30" range rapid fire guns. (my opinion).

The 12" range for the two shots on rapid fire pre-dates the original Tau codex. It's unlikely that they forgot about them for two editions afterwards. Particularly since they haven't been the only ones with RF weapons with a different maximum range... Eldar at one point had a RF weapon with a 12" max range, for example.

The 'they forgot about 'x'' argument would only hold water if the default rules for RF weapons ever referred to a 24" maximum range, which they don't. They just refer to getting a single shot at the weapon's maximum range.

Geez, you people need to stop being so literal. Next time I'll be sure to put [sarcasm] in my post since the "my opinion" statement didn't seem to get through. Yes, I am aware that GW didn't "forget" anything. You have to admit though that allowing FWs to rapid fire at 15" would be a nice army-specific rule that would alleviate some of their glaring deficiencies. Even if the rules don't outright state a 24" range, most of the infantry weapons in the game are 24". In fact are there rapid fire weapons, other than pulse rifles, with a range greater than 24"? I can't think of one; I'll readily admit that I don't know every weapon in the game though.


@ Ghaz,
Balance is a poor argument anyway as they break the rules of the game with each codex anyway. A tau player might say that a 30" shunt teleport and scout moving vendettas unbalances the game as well.

And what do shunt moves or scouting Vendettas have to do with rapid fire weapons? Nothing. Just because someone might consider something 'unbalanced' doesn't mean that there can't be anything in the rules for balance sake.

Also, I do not know of a single thesarus that gives the word 'sarcasm' as a synonym for 'opinion'. They're two different words with two different meanings.

agnosto wrote: In fact are there rapid fire weapons, other than pulse rifles, with a range greater than 24"?

While most RF weapons do have a 24" range, it's not true of all of them.

Codex Space Marines has veterans with Bolters that can have either a 30" or 18 inch range.
Codex Grey Knights and Imperial Guard have hot shot lasguns with an 18" range.
The previous Eldar Codex had 12" RF Death Spinners.

Ghaz wrote:And what do shunt moves or scouting Vendettas have to do with rapid fire weapons? Nothing. Just because someone might consider something 'unbalanced' doesn't mean that there can't be anything in the rules for balance sake.

Also, I do not know of a single thesarus that gives the word 'sarcasm' as a synonym for 'opinion'. They're two different words with two different meanings.

If we're talking about unbalancing the game then scouting vendettas and shunting monstrous creatures are in fact very relevant.....because both provide something that causes an unbalancing influence withing the structures of the rules. I fail to see how scouting vendettas for IG and shunting MCs for Grey Knights is any less unbalancing than a 15" rapid fire for Tau would be. That's my opinion yours may, and apparently does, differ. No problem.

Whether opinion or sarcasm, neither should be understood to be a representation of fact so there need be no literal connection between the two words other than the intent which would be evident if either word were used.

No need to continue this as you appear to just be in the mood to misconstrue and be argumentative. I simply made an opinion known on the topic and was called upon to defend it for some odd reason. Have a pleasant evening/day.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

insaniak wrote:

agnosto wrote: In fact are there rapid fire weapons, other than pulse rifles, with a range greater than 24"?

While most RF weapons do have a 24" range, it's not true of all of them.

Codex Space Marines has veterans with Bolters that can have either a 30" or 18 inch range.
Codex Grey Knights and Imperial Guard have hot shot lasguns with an 18" range.
The previous Eldar Codex had 12" RF Death Spinners.

I guess more in line with my perceived intent of the discussion would be to state that it's relevant to longer than 24" RF weapons. If I were to right the rule, it would read that the rapid fire range for such listed weapons would be 12" or half the maximum range of the weapon, whichever is greater. But I don't right the rules. I still think it would do a great deal to make firewarriors more viable in 5th edition if they could RF at 15".

No need to continue this as you appear to just be in the mood to misconstrue and be argumentative. I simply made an opinion known on the topic and was called upon to defend it for some odd reason.

Last time I looked this was a discussion forum. It is perfectly within the rules to post my own opinions even if they run contrary to yours. It seems a bit hypocritical of you to imply otherwise. If you don't want anyone to question your opinions then the only way to do so is to not post them.

Also, I simply stated that the 12" range was for balance reasons. It doesn't matter if a 15" range would not be as unbalanced as a shunting dreadknight because the only one trying to compare it to something he deems 'unbalanced' is you. I was simply giving the WHY, nothing more.

agnosto wrote: If I were to right the rule, it would read that the rapid fire range for such listed weapons would be 12" or half the maximum range of the weapon, whichever is greater. But I don't right the rules. I still think it would do a great deal to make firewarriors more viable in 5th edition if they could RF at 15".

It is write the rules, unless you are righting a wrong but in that case you might be writing to right the oversight that robbed Tau of their right to rapid fire 15"...Either way it is 12" because the good book says so, from a balance perspective I don't think 3" of RF range would matter for Tau.