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I'm starting up an Imperial Guard army soon and thought I'd make a list to give me an idea of what I need to buy. For fluff reasons i want to try and avoid suing Leman Russ tanks and Vendettas gunships. My local metagame is very diverse so here's my attempt at a 2000 point all-comers list.

HQ
CCS w/Chimera

Troops
Veteran squad w/ x3 melta guns and chimera with extra armor (taking free upgrade of multilaser to Heavy Bolter)

Veteran squad w/ x3 plasma guns and plasma pistol sergeant, carapace armor and chimera with extra armor and multilaser exchanged for a heavy bolter

Infantry Platoon 1:
- PCS w/ 2 flamers
- Infantry squad w/ autocannon and grenade launcher
- Infantry squad w/ autocannon and grenade launcher

Infantry Platoon 2:
- PCS w/ 2 flamers
- Infantry squad w/ autocannon and grenade launcher
- Infantry squad w/ autocannon and grenade launcher

Infantry Platoon 3:
- PCS w/ 2 flamers
- Infantry squad w/ autocannon and grenade launcher
- Infantry squad w/ autocannon and grenade launcher

Fast Attack
Banewolf w/Flamer
Devil Dog w/ multimelta

Heavy Support
Medusa w/ Bastion breacher shells and enclosed compartment x2
Colossus x2
Hydra Flak Battery x2

Total 1,995

I was at a bit of a loss as to what to upgrade my Infantry squads with although i could give up 1 flamer on each of the PCS squads and take a Master of the Fleet to mess with reserve lists. Again, for fluff I'd like to keep the masses of simple footslogging Infantry squads but im willing to change anything in the list if there's a good reason for it

This isn't a foot slogger list, your infantry is really there as support to your artillery. It is closer to a leafblower list where all your doing is sitting back and letting your artillery blow them off the table.

I take it your going to blob the 6 platoons or do you have 6 squads scattered about? What is the job/role/task of your Chimera Vets? You don't even need a 3rd PCS as a Single PCS can have up to 5 platoon infantry squads under it. If you do indeed take 3 PCS, you do not want to waste the 4 special weapon slots and gear it out. Also, the Multi Laser is not bad at popping light (AV 12 and lower) transports, I would suggest you leave them on.

Your troops are really under equipped. Grenade Launchers are not very good for the simple reason that the Krak shots are Str 6 AP 4, so you can wound a marine but he gets his armor save. Frag shots at Str 3 AP 6 say you have a 50% chance to hit with BS 3 and 50% chance to wound a Guardsman, if it doesn't scatter. Your just not going to consistently kill things if you do hit them. Only redeeming quality is the range. 3 best special weapons for Guard (IMO) are flamers (no roll to hit), meltaguns and plasmaguns. Melta and plasma guns kill what they hit with a high Str, low AP shot. You just have to roll consistently bad to fail with them. Melta and Plasma guns also have their roles... if your moving up to attack, you will want melta. If your static, plasma is generally the best choice to make use of both weapon's strengths. That isn't to say they can be flip flopped... having melta in your back will protect against DPed dreadnaughts or even DSing Terminators.

The Devil Dog is going to be the number 1 target, then your Medusas, then Hydras, then Colossi, then your Infantry (chimeras and then foot) against a mech army. This should really tell you what vehicles you have that are the best at their job. The Banewolf will be targeted based on threat level, as in if it is to close to infantry. Hoard will have a different priority, obviously, with the Banewolf being probably top target and then Colossi, Hydra, Medusa, infantry, and then dog. I know this is your goal as a all-comers, but you really want two of everything and you can't afford it in this list. If you could afford it, at least get a second Devil Dog in that 3rd Fast slot.

To be honest, I think your going to be disappointed with the Colossi because of the range limitations and the scatter. If it hits marines, it will kill them, much less weaker armored hoards. But scattering a D6 even on a hit and 3d6 on a arrow is just a killer, specially with BS 3. But ditching them is 280pts, which could be a second Devil Dog and upgrading your troops and CCS to all have good equipment, even getting a Commissar or three to keep your troops in the fight with stubborn. Give your Sergeants and Commissars power weapons to protect the heavys from assault and blob them up. Leave the ACs and upgrade their GLs to Plasmaguns to give you a fighting chance against DSers. This also means you can now split up your Hydras (or Medusas) so each one can fire at a separate target. I think the Hydras will be better for the Split as they can be used against skimmers, light AV, and troops with equal effect.

Drop the armor off of your Chimera, put back the Multi-Lasers and replace the hull HB with a HF if your going to attack with the Chimera (to clear infantry from cover) or leave the HB if your just sitting back and shooting with it. Upgrade the other Chimera to all plasma and keep it identical to the other Vet squad. Grenadiers is good to protect against 'Get's Hot!' and if your Chimera blows up, so I will say leave it, but if you need 30pts (or 60pts since your doing both), drop it and suck up the bad rolls. Put Meltaguns in your CCS and use it as a rear area guard against Drop podding Dreads or if stuff gets through your line of fire. It can't score, so it is really best to be held in reserve to counter threats since your not doing Chimera rush as a standard tactic. Look at getting your PCSs in Chimeras or at least upgraded with better weapons. If they are to camp back by the blobs, giving them two melta guns and two plasma guns to react to any threat might be the way to go, even though they are BS 3. If you give the blobs all Plasmaguns, then go Meltas and flamers. They do count as troops so sitting them on home objectives does work.

Good luck and I hope this was helpful.

A Colossus scatters just like every other barrage weapon: not at all if you hit, 2d6-BS if you can see the target, 2D6 if you cannot see the target.

Sorry I want very clear about what I wanted to do. Having my artillery blow them off the table is exactly what i want to do. The chimera vets are intended for melta/plasma drive-bys as I dislike the idea of throwing suicide vets out of Vendettas. I took the colossi in an attempt to kill things hiding in cover but you are probably right in that a second devildog would be more useful and free up a lot of points for upgrades or more units.

As far as the infantry goes. I honestly don't know what to do with them other than give them autocannons and bubble wrap my heavy support. I didnt outfit the CCS and PCS with anything in particular as i was planning on just having them sit by my units and throw out orders. If need be, throwing the PCSs in front of incoming assault units as a speedbump. I think im going to take your advice though, giving infantry plasma guns and the PCSs meltas and flamers. I'll work on a revised list and post it later today

I like the feel of your army. I myself have had very mixed luck with the siege mortars but they are fun one way or another. They have done everything from ace an entire unit of lootas on turn one to failing to kill one 5-man knight squad all game. I've always liked the idea of playing an artillery battery list. The only issue I have is the flamers. if you are shooting them with flamers then they are already too close and if its an MEQ they won't really matter. Thats just personal preferance though. Also kit our that CCS! they are BS 4 and can take 4 special weapons w/ no other upgrades use them like you use your vets. They won't be shouting orders but orders won't affect artillery anyway

Biophysical wrote:A Colossus scatters just like every other barrage weapon: not at all if you hit, 2d6-BS if you can see the target, 2D6 if you cannot see the target.

Thanks Bio... I can swear I read it somewhere as being different. Maybe it was a specail rule for something.

Here's a revised version of the list. I couldn't fit everything BlkTom suggested so I did what I could:

HQ
CCS w/ 2 melta guns, 2 plasma guns and a Chimera

Troops
Veteran squad w/ x3 melta guns and chimera

Veteran squad w/ x3 plasma guns and chimera

Infantry Platoon 1:
- PCS w/ 2 melta guns, 2 flamers and a chimera
- Infantry squad w/ autocannon <--- the two squads are blobbed with a commissar
- Infantry squad w/ autocannon

- Infantry squad w/ autocannon <--- the two squads are blobbed with a commissar
- Infantry squad w/ autocannon

- Infantry Squad w/ autocannon

Heavy weapon squad:
- Heavy weapons team w/ missile launcher
- Heavy weapons team w/ missile launcher
- Heavy weapons team w/ missile launcher

Fast Attack
Banewolf w/Flamer
Devil Dog w/ multimelta

Heavy Support
Medusa w/ Bastion breacher shells and enclosed compartment x2
Manticore
Hydra Flak Battery x2

Total: 2,000 points

I could also drop the heavy weapons squad and the lone Infantry squad for another Fast attack Hellhound variant. The only thing is i do miss the presence of the Colossus in this list
Many of my closer friends, who i play most often with, like to simply run annihalation games without rolling and they also tend to use footslogging infantry armies with some light tanks which is why I'm packing more autocannons and not loading up with meltas. Ill have to change my tactics eventually against the other players at my FLGS but this is just a list to give me an idea of what units I need to buy to be ab effective against their various codexs

Well, if you really want the Colossus, put it in! *grins*

I am offering suggestions but I am more than willing to work with you for stuff you want. The goal after all is to make something that /you/ want to play that gives you the most bang for your buck.

How about this...?

CCS - 155pts
2x melta guns, 2x plasma guns and a Chimera

Vets - 170pts
3x plasma guns and a Chimera

Vets - 170pts
3x plasma guns and a Chimera

PCS - 60pts
2x Melta guns, 2x Flamers

PIS - 120pts Blob A
AC, Commissar, 2x power weapons, Meltabomb
PIS - 60pts Blob A
AC, power weapon

PIS - 120pts Blob B
AC, Commissar, 2x power weapons, Meltabomb
PIS - 60pts Blob B
AC, power weapon

HWS - 85pts
AC, MLx2

Banewolf - 130pts
Flamer

Devil Dog - 135pts
Multi-melta

Devil Dog - 135pts
Multi-melta

Medusa x2 - 310pts
Bation breacher, enclosed

Hydra x2 - 150pts

Colossus - 140pts

- 2000pts

Does this work better for you?

BlkTom wrote:Well, if you really want the Colossus, put it in! *grins*

I am offering suggestions but I am more than willing to work with you for stuff you want. The goal after all is to make something that /you/ want to play that gives you the most bang for your buck.

-really cool list here-

Does this work better for you?

BlkTom, I like you

This list has everything I wanted to include and I'm trusting that you, the player with actual IG experience, built a solid list

I think I'll use this for the final list. I just have to ask, while the Heavy Support and Fast Attack are pretty easy to understand how to use properly, Infantry in the IG codex is ... kind of complicated. can you explain how best to use those infantry blobs and vets in chimeras. CCS also dont function like most armies' HQ some tips there would be handy

Something to think about, objectives and table courters.

Sarakos wrote:

BlkTom wrote:Well, if you really want the Colossus, put it in! *grins*

I am offering suggestions but I am more than willing to work with you for stuff you want. The goal after all is to make something that /you/ want to play that gives you the most bang for your buck.

-really cool list here-

Does this work better for you?

BlkTom, I like you

This list has everything I wanted to include and I'm trusting that you, the player with actual IG experience, built a solid list

I think I'll use this for the final list. I just have to ask, while the Heavy Support and Fast Attack are pretty easy to understand how to use properly, Infantry in the IG codex is ... kind of complicated. can you explain how best to use those infantry blobs and vets in chimeras. CCS also don't function like most armies' HQ some tips there would be handy

Heh... to be honest I have never used any of the artillery, as my IG was built back in the day when IG used rhinos and had land speeders. I have had to pretty much use foot Guard because Chimeras and the like are expensive. Heh, I have one Russ from the original kit, still not put together. Hopefully it isn't to small like my other kits. Oh well, still a GW model, so still legal.

But, I know how to use troops and what works best with them (or at least a pretty good idea, IMO). You never really stop learning of course. I have fallen in love with Orders and Creed (proxies of course) and use Orders heavily in my list. Your not using orders in this list, though you do have a chance to. Your limited to a 12" range and can issue 2 orders a phase using the target squad's leadership. There are some good orders, but the two you will want to look at is 'Bring it Down!' and 'First rank fire! Second rank fire!'. BiD makes your weapons twin linked for MCs and Vehicles as long as both your CCS and the targeted squad can see the target. FRFSRF can be given by your PCS and your CCS and if the target is within 12", gives all your lasguns (if you don't move) 3 shots and 2 shots if up to 24" away. It is only lasguns though, but it /really/ increases your base trooper's firepower.

Now, for using your blobs what you probably want to do is what is termed 'bubble wrapping' your heavy supports. The goal here is to be within 6" of the vehicles to prevent units from deep striking or drop podding right next to them and popping them with melta weapons or charging them. Remember that if they DP in, disembarking counts as moving (thus they can't move or assault but can shoot the turn they come in). Vanguard can charge after DSing and Sternguard can be combat squadded in a drop pod to drop in and fire on two units. So if they come in, you don't want them within 6" of your heavy support vehicles. Plant them on a few inches from the table edge and make a loose semi-circle with your troops. If you get assaulted, your tactics are to use your normal trooper as ablative wounds while your Commissar and sergeants are in base to base or at least 2" away to get their PW attacks in. They are not ICs, so can't be directly targeted. Save your special weapons and heavy weapons for last and then your Sarges and Commissars. Do note your Commissars /will/ kill a sarge if you fail a moral check, so keep their equipment to bare minimum. Since the Commissar can't have meltabombs, shoot the sergeant without meltabombs first. Read up on the stubborn rules, as it is key to keep your units in the fight. Your blobs will use the Commissar's leadership for moral tests. I normally don't like Meltabombs because they are so hard to hit with, but that is your best chance if you get assaulted by a walker.

The other way to use blobs is to use them in a aggressive manner and to actively assault with them. Since this isn't your tactic, I will not bore you or others with the tactics concerning this. If you decide to do this, you look at using 3-5 PISs in them and this is the core of your list. These lists use Straken alot, even Creed and Yarrick. They also tend to not use heavy weapons and use melta guns since they are assault weapons.

With your HWS and your PCS, you want to place them in cover and close to your bubble squads or on objectives. Since we had to give up some infantry, your not going to be able to bubble all of your heavy support vehicles unless you keep 2 out of the 3 packed in tight, so use these units to help out with that (like with the medusa squad since it is direct fire). The HWS can really help with this, but do understand that out of cover it is pretty vulnerable... even in cover it is vulnerable. If you want to use BiD, keep your CCS with in 12" of it and a blob.

With 2/3s of the games being objective based games, you can't sit back every game, as Tarval has mentioned. This is where your Vets come in. I honestly suggest you put the heavy Flamer on the hull and use them to move up and burn out enemy objectives and contest them or take them. Remember the Vets can fire at a different unit than the Chimera, so sometimes it is pointless to waste shots on units in cover if you have better shots elsewhere. Also know that you don't have to move up first turn. Give your Colossus a turn or two to take care of them, just keep in mind the board is 4' across and you can be 12" from the edge and you move 12" a turn. If anything use your Bane Wolf to move up first to help clear them out. Till you move up with your Vets, use them to defend your back area from out flankers and DSers, as plasmaguns are Terminator killers and even have a chance against AV 13 to glance if a Dread drops in and you have nothing left to shoot it with (and nothing else to shoot). Just remember your opponent is probably doing the same thing (moving up on /your/ objectives)... but putting your Fast Attack together with your two Chimera vets can be a pretty potent little attack force that give you units that can score and/or shoot troops after the DDs have popped the transports. Actually that might be the best use for them in a list like this.

As for your CCS, the Chimera is a command vehicle so you can give Orders from it, but you can't give it to units in vehicles (including the CCS...don't think about it to hard...). Give the Chimera a HB instead of a HF on the hull, as this unit can't score, so you probably want to sit back and fire away with it and use the ML to pop transports and the HB for troops. Use it as a rapid response in your back area to support your home objective units or your blobs from DSers or out flankers. A second role can be also give it a hull heavy flamer and use it to travel with your Fast attack vehicles and Vets to give you added melta support and extra plasma gun fire. I think with up to 5 units doing this already (probably running up one flank and keeping your heavy Support on the opposite side or middle), it might be better used doing the first role (sitting back in support).

The more you play, the more you will discover the strengths/weaknesses of the units you have. If your facing Land Raiders, maybe moving the DDs 12" and shooting your melta cannons in a suicide run /is/ the best option. Maybe you have to use a blob to get up to a home objective because the unit you put on it got wiped out. You have 1000pts of infantry and a 1000pts of Fast/Heavy, so really your list is fairly balanced points wise, but I think it is alittle light troop wise compared to what Guard can normally have. Maybe you will decide to not protect the Hydras with your blobs.

Hope this helps and good luck!

Thanks for the tips, particularly about the fast attack. I've been devouring IG tactica but the only time IG fast attack is mentioned its talking about Vendettas

Key with those fast attack vehicles is that they can move 12" and fire a single weapon. Read the Fast vehicle rules in the BRB.

Really the tactics are directed by the foe your playing, use your vehicles to their best effect. With an all-comers list the key is knowing your enemy, or as much about them as possible.