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A confusion came up earlier during a game, and I nearly lost because of it (I still lost, but that was for other reasons).

The rules state that a whole building can be turned to ruins on a roll of 5 on the vehicle damage table and turns into dangerous or difficult terrain.
What happens when you hit ruins and try to blow them up with a 5? Nothing? If something is blocking my LOS and I try to blow a hole in it, is it just impervious to damage because it's already been blown up?

What about walls? What happens when they're wrecked?

I figured it would be like a Weapon Destroyed rule for vehicles, where if it's already wrecked, wrecking it again just blows it to bits, but there's absolutely no rule for it.

EDIT: Oh, and out of curiosity (though I already know the answer) my one Chaos Sorcerer annihilated an entire 8-man squad of Flashgits on a Sweeping Advance, though he only killed 2 of them the round before, and just because he tied their roll. That rule really seems odd to me.

You need to remember that Buildings and Ruins have different rules. Reread those and see if you questions aren't answered.

Concerning the curious edit; I understand that you don't like the Sweeping Advance rules. Is there a question to go with that statement?

No question, its just weird.

I re-read the rules about buildings and ruins several times, and didn't see any change when hitting a ruin with a 5 - Wrecked. Only on 6 - Destroyed. So what happens to ruins on 5 - Wrecked since ruins are technically already wrecked?

Ruins cannot be targeted or shot at, and you never roll on the damage table against them because they cannot be damaged.

You can only shoot at buildings, and what is a building or a ruin must be decided between your opponent and yourself.

Sweeping advance doesn't necessarily represent kills, but the unit it presumed to be so utterly broken that they have scattered and will no longer serve any useful purpose on the battlefield.

Rusted wrote:No question, its just weird.

I re-read the rules about buildings and ruins several times, and didn't see any change when hitting a ruin with a 5 - Wrecked. Only on 6 - Destroyed. So what happens to ruins on 5 - Wrecked since ruins are technically already wrecked?

The difference is: ruins can NEVER be the target of shooting. For a start, what AV are you using? Ruins dont HAVE AV!

As the others have said, you cannot target the ruins directly

Building:
can target embarked units = no
can target building = Yes
Multiple squads occupy building = No
Assault troops inside building = no

Ruins:
Can target models in ruins: Yes(though it will give them a cover save)
can target building = No
Multiple squads occupying ruins = Yes
assault troops in a ruins = Yes


they are two very different pieces of terrain, even though a building can become ruins, ruins are still no longer a building. those are just a few of the ways that buildings are different from ruins.

rulewise, a ruin is no different from another piece of area terrain like a forest.


a Building is treated like a transport vehicle for the embarked troops(with some additional rules)

Since you can't target the ruins, you can't really do anything to them. RAW they are now indestructible.

If you really want to have destructible environs, have blast weapons roll a 'cover destroyer' check. On a 5+, the cover immediately under the template becomes rubble, conferring only a 5+ cover save and counting as difficult terrain. BTW that would be a houserule, in no means legal in standard play.

-cgmckenzie

TheAvengingKnee wrote:Can target models in ruins: Yes(though it will give them a cover save)

This answers my question exactly. That means the piece of terrain we were using was technically a building, not a ruin like the guy kept suggesting. It also means that, if it was a ruin, it couldn't have kept him from my LOS. Thanks a lot Dakka!

Arctik_Firangi wrote:Sweeping advance doesn't necessarily represent kills, but the unit it presumed to be so utterly broken that they have scattered and will no longer serve any useful purpose on the battlefield.

Ooooh that's a clever way to think about it, I like that.

This answers my question exactly. That means the piece of terrain we were using was technically a building, not a ruin like the guy kept suggesting. It also means that, if it was a ruin, it couldn't have kept him from my LOS. Thanks a lot Dakka!

well if a part of the ruins(like a wall) does block your model from being able to draw line of sight to an enemy model it would keep it from being in LoS.

Ruins are area terrain.

Ruins can still block line of site just fine. The game uses true line of site so if you can't see what you're trying to shoot at from your models perspective then it's not in LoS.


Edit: Maybe this will help keep things clear for you. Ruins follow the rules for area terrain with a few additional bits. Buildings act more like transports that don't move with a couple extra rules. Read those sections carefully for their exact rules.

Yea I get that now. Basically the terrain was an ope-topped box, basically half a building with some windows and a wall and no roof. The thing was gigantic, and I was trying to blow a hole in it to get LoS on his units. He said that, since it was an open-topped half building it was technically 'ruins' and I couldn't do anything about it. I think in the future we're going to call it a concrete wall instead of ruins.

Basic diagram:

|---------|
|_____|

| walls
_ wall with windows
- open space

If his models can see your models, your models should be able to see his models to fire back, his models will get a cover save(unless the weapon ignores cover) if its a ruins.

If its a building then his models can shoot yours from fire points but your models cant shoot his models inside, though your models can attempt to blow up the building(or wreck it).


This really seems to be a situation were both of you should have better discussed what pieces of terrain were and hammered out details a bit better. If he insists they are ruins then have him play them as ruins, if he wants it to be a building have him set it up as a building(make sure you discuss the AV of the building when placing it).

Sry for the edits, just trying to be more clear in what I meant.