Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Just something that occurred to me a couple of minutes ago. There are some things that require you to use 'unmodified strength' of a weapon, but I can't (off the top of my head) think of anything that actually modifies the base strength of a weapon - just sometimes adds + 1 to a penetration roll, or an extra D6, or something. There's probably some situation that's slipped out of my tired brain, but does anyone know of one? For example - when is a melta's base strength not 8?

On another note, what is the weapon used in CC vs vehicles? Is it the power fist/sword/teddybear used by the model, or is it the 'model itself'? (With said model's strength being doubled by pfists etc).

If im not mistaken furious charge makes a power fist strength 9 not strength 10 is that the sort of thing you mean?

Well, furious charge adds +1 to user strength, and the PFist doubles it to 8 before that, so not quite was I was thinking - because the charge doesn't actually affect the strength of the weapon, whatever the 'weapon' is.

Also, this might actually be technical enough to belong in YMDC, now that I think about it :S

Either that or the Monolith's Living Metal rule....It gets dragged up here more often than it really needs to be..

Unmodified strength means that it has not been buffed in some way. I think the GK have something that adds +1 to the weapon's strength, but i could be wrong.

Powerfists/klaws double the wearer's base strength, then add any modifiers. Furious charge grants you S9 for the first round of a combat, then it drops to S8.

For all practical purposes a cc weapon uses the wielder's strength, modified by any special rules it has. Some creatures CC attacks are literally them using their bodies to smack you down, while others are the creature swinging a sword/fist/teddybear in close combat, using the wielder's strength.

Ranged weapons have a Str score. Some can be modified, i believe (like joining the blast from 2 fireprisms, perhaps? I'm not too up on eldar..).

In the case of the monolith you get 1d6 + the unmodified str of the attack. Powerfists work fine vs them.

A weapon that adds to your strength (+ 1, 2 or whatever) modifies your strength. A weapon that allows you to use double your Strength does not, for some odd reason..

This is indeed an offshoot of that infamous rule, but more one of curiosity - people say that FC works because it modifies the user, not the weapon. So I started wondering what the 'weapon' actually was in CC vs vehicles It's a bit confusing.

EDIT: This gets more YMDCish every time I post. Maybe it *should* be moved or something ._.

The answer is basically yes, no and maybe... pick two.

When they redo the Necron Dex i hope to hell they make the rule cast-iron and simple. The intent is simple, but there are semantic arguments galore to be had

Ascalam wrote:The answer is basically yes, no and maybe... pick two.

When they redo the Necron Dex i hope to hell they make the rule cast-iron and simple. The intent is simple, but there are semantic arguments galore to be had

Indeed, 'welcome to the internet' ^^

Well in CC there is no "weapon strength" since it's basically the strength of the user. Normally, what happens with the PF is the norm. There is at least one exception (and I think it's the only one), which is Hammerhand (and maybe Might of Titan as well) from the GK codex, which is a psychic power that raises the user' strength to 5 AND lets thunderhammers double that, for a final attack strength of 10.

Ranged weapons don't have any strength modifier that I know of, at most have different firing profiles (like in the case of the fire prism or the missile launchers) or are subject to rules that increase/decrease the AP roll.

psyrounds i think that they're called that give GK SBs +1S

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:psyrounds i think that they're called that give GK SBs +1S

gak you're right >_< It's more than that...

Gk have both Psybolt Ammunition and Psyflame fuel. The first one grants +1S to stombolters, bolt pistols, boltguns, autocannons and assault cannons. Psyflame fuel does the same for flamers, heavy flamers and flamestorm cannons (yes, Str 7 Ap3 land raider redeemer)

Well I only know two cases:

- GK: physic ammo (increases S by 1)
- Necrons (in Apocalypse): monolith formation (decreases S by 1)