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so. following several attempts at creating a fun (and by fun i don't mean tabling my opponent by turn 3....) and successful (by which i mean has a degree of success) list with dark eldar, i'm kinda stumped as to where to go with them....

i've read several articles on tactics and there seems to be:
a lot of push to max up on TruBlast squads in Venoms.
a disdain for the Mandrakes
a reluctance to see value in Bloodbrides
an aversion to the talos and chronos
a scorn for the fast attack options

i am.....stuck.

basically i have the following at my disposal, and need a sensible, flexible list of 2000points built around it.

20 wyches
10 warriors
10 hellions
6 reavers
lelith
2 raiders

i'm thinking 2 ravagers are probably a given for heavy support, but beyond that.....

any help as to what to put together would be very much appreciated.

When reading tacticas and strategy guides always pay attention to the intent of the author. Generally the goal when discussing 'competitive' options means exactly that, it's a goal to divine what will be best in order to win a tournament that other players are showing up to with the best lists available. If this is not your goal, than ignore the advice - as simple as that.

rider wrote:i've read several articles on tactics and there seems to be:
a lot of push to max up on TruBlast squads in Venoms.
a disdain for the Mandrakes
a reluctance to see value in Bloodbrides
an aversion to the talos and chronos
a scorn for the fast attack options

1. Because they are very good at multiple things.
2. Because they are very much not good at doing what they're supposed to do.
3. Bloodbrides are awesome, I don't think anyone I've seen has ever mocked them except by noting that the Troop Wytches are basically as good, cheaper, scoring, and viable in doing pretty much everything Brides do.
4. I am averse to the Chronos, I think the Talos has some purpose - both need lists focused on them.
5. Because every other Force Org slot has better options, no doubt. FA is uber weak in our codex, that's just a fact. If I went to a tourney and the rule was 'no selections from one force org section' I would drop FA EVERY time with DE if I wanted to win.

basically i have the following at my disposal, and need a sensible, flexible list of 2000points built around it.

20 wyches
10 warriors
10 hellions
6 reavers
lelith
2 raiders

i'm thinking 2 ravagers are probably a given for heavy support, but beyond that.....

By mentioning Ravagers, which aren't on your list, I'm left wondering what your goal here is. Is it a 2000 point list built that includes everything you've mentioned?

I'm pretty neutral on actually building a list for someone - how about this as a deal;
If you'll post a list you made that you are happy with but desire it to be "better" or "more competitive" I'll work within the confines of that list to try to make it do what it's meant to do better than it is currently. But I'd rather see what you're thinking, and also see you make some executive decisions on what/how much you're willing to buy to fill out your army.

Hope that helps,
Thor.

thanks for the reply. i had a 1750 list (plus revision) up in another thread. i'll see if i can find it and append a link....

and yes - i mean to use the stuff listed as a core to build the army around. buying extra stuff isn't a problem - whatever's needed really, however:

ideally i'd use all the stuff there as i don't want to be left with stuff unused......


Automatically Appended Next Post:
here we are:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/372097.page

and yes, i realise now that some of the options in wargear in the revised list at the end aren't legal...... oops!!

Well, that's a 1750, not a 2000, but let's consider what we have here.

First off, you're running a list concept that I think is very prone to failure, and that is a hybrid Raider Rush/WWP list. WIth WWP it is my opinion that either you should embrace what you're doing whole hog, or not muck with it. It doesn't seem to work very well as a mild flavor to a list. Looking at what you own, and considering your request for something 'fun' but not competitive to where it wipes out the opponent quickly, and considering your idea of using a WWP - I think going with a WWP list would work well for you. Let's consider what you own;

10 warriors
2 raiders

20 Wyches, Lelith - they'll work great coming out of a WWP. Though you'll probably want more Wyches, because large squads coming out of the portal will be optimal. Lelith will probably end up being run as a Hekatrix though - you'll need some Hamey action for your HQ slot that isn't used on Baron Sathy.

10 Hellions - These will work great when you use them as Beastmasters and get some beast hordes coming out of the portal. Razorwings and Kyhmarae offer a lot of opportunity for conversion if you don't wish to use the base models. Plus, can be done relatively cheap. One of the Hellions should be converted to a Baron Sathonyx model - he'll pair nicely with the Beastmasters and also help you get first turn.

6 Reavers - a bit, meh, but you can work with them. Depending how many Beastmaster squads you run, of course. Optimal load out is 3 RJBs with a Blaster/Heat Lance (I recommend Blasters, others prefer Heat Lances, YMMV). 2 squads of 3 coming out of a portal can add some nice anti-mech options. As you get more Beastmaster units you can always trim back from these guys. In the meantime you can get some use out of them.

10 Warriors and 2 Raiders - Two 5 man squads with a Blaster to ride with your 2 Haems with WWP. This will start on the board first turn and will have the job of setting up portals. You could always convert the Warriors to Wracks as well for a slightly different setup, that would still be decent.

To Buy: More Wyches, Beast units, 2 Haemons, and Talos/Cronos action or Ravager action depending on your personal value call. I'd probably lean Talos though Cronos could find a place in this list if the Wych squads are meaty enough and you can bounce some tokens onto them.

There, competitive - but not 'oh dear gawd' competitive, as it will require more skill and the occasional flash of luck to win than other DE lists. Plus, few things are funner than having a portal open up to release 20+ Wyches, a Talos, and some howling Beastmasters into your opponent's face.

Regards,
Thor.

thanks thor. i'm having a play around with a raider based list at the moment, ditching the WWP and talos.

i'll post it up later to see what you think.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
here's the 2000pt list.

i actually need to shed 42points if i calculate it correctly.

Lelith

Haemo
Liquifer, Agoniser

Wyches (x2)
9 inc Hekatrix
razorflail, agoniser
raider, FF
(lelith in 1, Haemo in 1)

Warrior
10 inc Blaster and DL
raider, FF

Wracks
10 inc Acothyst
2 liquifiers, Agoniser
Raider, FF

Trueborn (x2)
4 with blasters
Venom with Sp Cannon upgrade

Ravager (x2)
DL, FF

Hellions
10 inc Helliarch with agoniser

Reavers
6 inc 2x heat lance, 2x caltrops

rider wrote:ti actually need to shed 42points if i calculate it correctly.

I'll happily refuse to total it up, but there's lots of places you can probably shave points, I'll point them out as I go through.

Lelith

Haemo
Liquifer, Agoniser

I'm pretty neutral about the Agoniser on the Haemy. Due to his lack of fleet he slows down the Wyches if they want to assault with him. It's also an easy way to save 20 points if he just stays on the Raider and drops flame templates on things while the Wyches take his pain token and go running around stabbing things in the face.

Wyches (x2)
9 inc Hekatrix
razorflail, agoniser
raider, FF
(lelith in 1, Haemo in 1)

No complaints here. In a more competitive streak I'd work in some haywire grenades (I'd consider them more valuable than the razorflail, honestly) but overall this is fine.

Warrior
10 inc Blaster and DL
raider, FF

I am not a fan of this unit. The rest of your army is very assault aggressive, and this unit is very much gunline centric. You're not running a gunline, so I think you should focus on fielding more mobile shooty elements in support. There's the classic DakkaVenom (5 guys, Blaster, Venom, 2 S.Cannons) that is cheap, and good at everything, and is a solid addition to any list.

Wracks
10 inc Acothyst
2 liquifiers, Agoniser
Raider, FF

This is fine, and fun.

Trueborn (x2)
4 with blasters
Venom with Sp Cannon upgrade

Ravager (x2)
DL, FF

I'll point out a issue I commonly have - and that is that the Trueblaster squads are there to give you more Ravagers. I would generally not advise getting Trueblasters when you still have a slot open to take a Ravager - this will also save you a lot of points.

Hellions
10 inc Helliarch with agoniser

I'm pretty meh on Hellions, I think they're terrible. I'd actually suggest fielding Baron Sathy over Lelith as an HQ and sticking him with the Hellions as than the squad will be a little bit more meaty. This will also save you points, and you might consider getting a second Haemy to ride with the Wyches who lost Lelith in that case.

Reavers
6 inc 2x heat lance, 2x caltrops

Serious question - why run them as a squad of 6 as opposed to 2 squads of 3? Answer? No good reason. I'd split them up, more targets for your enemy to worry about, more options, adaptability in tank hunting and/or infantry hunting.
Also, quite frankly, I'd save points and forget the caltrops, you have Venoms, Wyches, Hellions, Wracks, and Haemons w. Liquifiers to deal with infantry. You don't need more anti-infantry, you need anti-mech.
I'll also note again - the Blaster is superior to the Heat lance in all ways that really matter. You can stick with them if you like, but I think the Blaster is a better option.

much thanks once again thor. i shall revise the list once again taking these points on board.

so (finally) here it is:

HQ
Haemo w/ Liquifier
Haemo w/ Liquifier
Baron Sathonyx

ELITES
Trueborn
4 w/ Blasters
Venom w/ 2nd Splinter Cannon

TROOP
Wyches
9 inc Hekatrix (poor lelith gets a demotion!!)
Agoniser, Razorflail, Haywire
Raider w/ Flicker field
(Haemo joins here)

Wyches
9 inc Hekatrix
Agoniser, Razorflail, Haywire
Raider w/ Flicker field
(Haemo joins here)

Wracks
10 inc Acothyst
2 Liquifiers, Agoniser
Raider w/ FLicker field

Warriors
5 inc Blaster
Venom w/ 2nd Splinter cannon

Warriors
5 inc Blaster
Venom w/ 2nd Splinter cannon

Hellions
9 inc Helliarch
Agoniser
(joined by the Baron)

FAST
3 Reavers w/ blaster

3 Reavers w/ blaster

HEAVY
Ravager w/ dark lance
Ravager w/ dark lance
Ravager w/ dark lance

any feedback on this one? i have 18 points to spare.