Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have been playing 40k for a few months with some friends and I think I am comfortable enough with the 40k rules to start building a legit army. So far I have a small army made up of about 60 assorted Guardsmen, one sentinel and a Valkyrie. The army I was looking to build is 1500pts comprised of Valkyrie/Vendettas along with masses of infantry. Below is the army list I came up with using Army Builder. If anyone could give me advice on how I should alter this setup or ways I should use this army that would be great.


1500 Point Imperial Guard Army

-HQ-
Company Command Squad (140pts)
Astropath
X 2 Bodyguards
Medi-Pack
X 3 Sniper Rifles

-Troops-
Infantry Platoon (500pts)
Platoon Command Squad
Medi-Pack
X 3 Metaguns

X 4 Infantry Squads
Each with a Grenade Launcher
Each with Autocannon

Heavy Weapons Squad
X 2 Lascannons
Missile Launcher

Special Weapons Squad
X 3 Flamers

Infantry Platoon (180pts)
Platoon Command Squad
X 4 Grenade Launchers

X 2 Infantry Squads
Each with a Grenade Launcher
Each with a Heavy Bolter

X 3 Veteran Squads (300pts)
Each Squad has 3 meltaguns
(Deployed in the Valkyrie and Vendettas)

-Fast Attack-
Valkyrie Assault Carrier (100pts)
Vendetta Gunships (130pts)
Vendetta Gunships (130pts)


Thanks in advance!

Well, just know you can't outflank your Vendettas/Valkyrie's because the Vets can not outflank. Read pg 94 BRB on outflanking reserves. Troops with the ability to Outflank can give it to dedicated transports, but I have not seen anything about vehicles giving it to random troops.

If someone can correct me on this, please do. Provide a page number.

So with that said, I do not think the Astropath will do you any good. As for other CCS advice, the medics are kinda over priced for FNP, but if you insist on them, I strongly suggest plasmaguns. The FNP gives you a roll if you get 'Gets Hot!' with your plasma.

I, personally, am not a fan of Sniper Rifles or Grenade Launchers. Here is why... the Sniper rifles are AP 6, meaning anything with armor will get it's save against it. Fearless and high leadership means the pinning is more of a fluke to get off if it has a chance to.
The GL is a Str 3 AP 6 frag that can scatter and the Krak is Str 6 AP 4. The frag is crap and the krak can only really kill lightly armored troops consistantly and is very poor against any transports because they are mostly AV 11-12 (meaning a 5-6 to penetrate).
There are 3 weapons I prefer for IG, Flamers (they don't care what your BS is), Melta guns and Plasma guns.

ACs are great for Guard, as the 2 shots at Str 7 gives you a much better chance against AV 11-12 transports at a much farther range. The HB has that extra shot, but both are allowing armor saves for Power Armor and the AC has the higher Str. The ML is also good with a Str 8 Krak, but it still only glances AV 14 on a 6. Your best long range AT is your lascannons, and that only pens on a 6.

I think you may want to look at the Blob rules and you may want to take a long hard look at Creed and Straken.

If you still want to outflank your Vendettas, look at Al'Rahem and put troops from his platoon in your gunships. I like putting SWSs with flamers in them to make them scoring and clear out enemies in cover. Al'Rahem's PISs can come in blobed or via Chimeras, depending on what you want to do. Just note his special rule. I also like using Al'Rahem with Creed as Creed allows one infantry or vehicle to be given the Scout ability, which means it gets the outflank ability. Outflank a second blob or a Russ to give the enemy a nasty surprise. If you go this route, then yes, get a Astropath. If your doing 3 or less units, it really doesn't pay.

Creed and Straken can also work well for assault blobs, and you look like you have the ground work for assault blobs as an option. Just note any that are attacking, you don't want heavy weapons in them and you probably want Assault weapons like Meltas. Giving one of the platoons in the blob a Commissar and giving everyone who can use a power weapon and melta bombs really jacks up the survival chances.

Hope this gives you some ideas! Good luck!

I see what you are saying about my vets not being able not outflank with the Vendettas/Valkyries. I looked up the issue on the web and there is a lot of debate about this. Either way, I'm pretty sure I can still deepstrike my Vendettas/Valkyries with the vets from reserves (I'm probably wrong on this one). Even if I can't do that there are other ways I can get them behind enemy heavy weapons by using scout, deepstrike, and the speed of the vehicles. Ill have to make sure I know the rule before Im ready to use this army.

The reason I avoided plasma weapons was because of them getting hot. I guess you are right about the medic allowing me to a roll a save when the gun explodes. Ill make sure I build some guys with plasma guns and put them in my army.

One of the articles in the tactics section of this site recommended grenade launches in infantry squads. Thats the reason I included them. Im not to sure about it so I will build more flamers and other assorted special weapons so I can replace them.

When making this list I completely forgot about melta bombs. Ill make sure I add them in there when I deploy this sucker.

Straken looks pretty cool so Ill buy his model and maybe throw him in. That will give my bodyguards something to protect.

Thanks for the advice!!

Well, except for the part about valkyries not being able to outflank with veterans, you should listen to BlkTom.

Some things I think you should drop:
-Drop your bodyguards because they're only useful when your CO is worth protecting
-Drop medpacks in CCS and PCS for the same reason and because they're expensive

Some things I think you should change
-Replace sniper rifles with something useful
-Replace your whole second platoon with chimeras or heavy support or psykers, storm troopers or even ogryns, because you have enough scoring units and four footslogging line squads that aren't power blobs already.

How successful do you think this army could be? I think it is really cool but I am worried it might not be the most effective.

Indeed, if your local Tourny allows it and your friends do for friendly games, go for it. I am just not going to encourage it till I can see it in print saying otherwise. I rather play safe than sorry.

Straken with assault blobs with a Commissar or two in each one and everyone having power swords and meltas with bombs can be a pretty potent force. Obviously you will want to re-work your list around Straken, as guys like that almost require it.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

SirSaint75 wrote:How successful do you think this army could be? I think it is really cool but I am worried it might not be the most effective.

Well, there were some issues. I would re-work it first taking the suggestions offered first. The base list? Yeah, if it was well played and you got lucky you could do some damage... dice are dice, that is the random factor. But you have guns that could be upgraded to better guns to make you more effective and points that could be spent better. At the end of the day you have a ton of guns and scoring units, maybe not the best guns, but alot of them. They will do damage because it is the ACs and the Lascannons doing the damage.

But I am not sure how well you would stand up to a Marine list or another list that actually puts some fire back on you. Marines are not going to run away and they have Power Armor so only your meltas (if you get close enough) and Lascannons will hurt them consistantly. I don't see your troops staying around after you take return fire. Then with another heavy gun army it comes down to who shoots first. Obviously heavy CC armies, if they survive long enough to get into CC, will crush you. 2/3s of the games you will play are objective games, meaning you need to move up and take those objectives from the enemy, and your list is built to sit back and have the enemy trade shots with you.

vets CAN outflank while in a Valkrye/Vendetta, putting infantry in a transport with Scout doesn't remove the scout rule from the vehicle.

as for the rest of the list.

-I recommend not mixing weapons in heavy weapons squads, that way you can focus their fire on a target all weapons are effective against.

-Bodyguards can be useful in a Company Command squad tooled for assault, more attacks and bodies to hide your officer behind are always a good-thing.

-Sniper rifles may only be Ap6, but remember that they wound on a 4+ and a roll of a 6 means an automatic AP 2 wound. Hit on their firer's BS through.

-Commisars scattered around will keep your boys in line, and a Regimental standard will help those near the boss without the risk of losing their dear old sergeants to a failed test.

the rest of your list seems fine for an IG gunline, plenty of bodies, and squads seems focused on being anti infantry, I assume the Vendettas/Heavy Weapons Squads will handle Anti-Tank? be careful as the Gunships are hard to hide and will draw a lot of fire.

BlkTom wrote:Well, just know you can't outflank your Vendettas/Valkyrie's because the Vets can not outflank. Read pg 94 BRB on outflanking reserves. Troops with the ability to Outflank can give it to dedicated transports, but I have not seen anything about vehicles giving it to random troops.

If someone can correct me on this, please do. Provide a page number.

Do you also think that troops without the ability to deep strike can not deep strike onto the table in a drop pod?

Lord Harrab wrote:

the rest of your list seems fine for an IG gunline, plenty of bodies, and squads seems focused on being anti infantry, I assume the Vendettas/Heavy Weapons Squads will handle Anti-Tank? be careful as the Gunships are hard to hide and will draw a lot of fire.

Thats the plan. I was hoping my infantry would have enough firepower to not get obliterated by tanks. The Vendettas along with the veterans they carry are there to take out the heavy targets the infantry can't handle. My thinking was as long as I kept my infantry behind cover when possible I could keep them alive long enough to survive and hopefully win a few games.

Put a Commander of the Fleet in the CCS, that guy's bloody gold against Daemons, DoA, Outflanking, DE Alpha Strike Lists that reserve when they don't get first turn, Pedro Drop Pods etc... Compared to the Astropath the CotF is ace for disrupting your opponent's strategy.

What can I add to this list to make them better in close combat?? I don't expect them to win any assaults just survive long enough to get the job done.

SirSaint75 wrote:What can I add to this list to make them better in close combat?? I don't expect them to win any assaults just survive long enough to get the job done.

Powerblobs. that is a combined squad of 30 guardsmen, with a regular commissar, equip the Sergeants and commisar with powerweapons, then tie up a dedicated assault unit for the rest of the battle, taking it apart model by model and the great thing is, the enemy can't target the powerweapons in close combat. Also add melta-bombs in case of walkers.

EDIT: you dont even need to charge, so get within 12", use first rank fire! second rank fire! to whittle them down, them mob them when they charge.

augustus5 wrote:

BlkTom wrote:Well, just know you can't outflank your Vendettas/Valkyrie's because the Vets can not outflank. Read pg 94 BRB on outflanking reserves. Troops with the ability to Outflank can give it to dedicated transports, but I have not seen anything about vehicles giving it to random troops.

If someone can correct me on this, please do. Provide a page number.

Do you also think that troops without the ability to deep strike can not deep strike onto the table in a drop pod?

I am not going to detract from Saint's thread further. Take it to the Rule's discussion thread.

Remember you cannot shoot HWS etc through your power blobs unless you rank them up and make firing lanes. I see alot of guard players making that mistake over and over.

You can shoot HWS through your blobs but you will be granting a cover save to whatever you are shooting at.