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One fired told me yes, and another told me no so I am confused on what And who is correct..

I am currently using purifier spam and is confused if I can actully shoot out of the rhinos or not.

if a vehicle moved 6" to 12+" then passengers onboard may not fire while embarked. They can disembark and fire, but may not be embarked and fire.

If the vehicle moved 0-6" then passengers may fire.

Do not ask me why, that is just the rules afaik.

I am drunk so if someone can back me up that would be good.

If the Rhino moves at combat speed (upto 6") two members of the squad can shoot out of the top hatch. If the Rhino moves at cruising speed (7-12") then the squad cannot stay embarked and still fire. Alternatively, they can disembark and shoot, but cannot launch an assault all in the same turn.

Hope that helps.

L. Wrex

Gotcha

Hmm but the means a fast (BA) rhino move upto 18 inch? The people inside can fire? Since the rules don't mention it, maybe that's what my friend told me.

blaktoof wrote:if a vehicle moved 6" to 12+" then passengers onboard may not fire while embarked. They can disembark and fire, but may not be embarked and fire.

If the vehicle moved 0-6" then passengers may fire.

Do not ask me why, that is just the rules afaik.

I am drunk so if someone can back me up that would be good.

Your drunk posting is better than most sober posters! This is correct. It's different with "fast" vehicles, but these are the basics.

If the vehicle moves up to 6" the passengers may fire out (provided it has fire points).
If it moves OVER 6", NO PASSENGERS MAY FIRE out of it.
This does not matter if it is a normal vehicle or a fast vehicle. ALL vehicles use this same rule for passengers firing from them.

The limitations to firing of weapons based on speed applies ONLY to the VEHICLE'S OWN weapons, and not those carried by passengers.

+1 for Drunky!

Now for the relevant pages and possibly some text:

BRB Page 66, Transport vehicles, Fire Points, final paragraph: "Models firing from a vehicle count as moving if the vehicle moves, and may not fire at all if the vehicle moves at cruising speed that turn."

BRB Page 70, Fast Vehicles, Moving fast vehicles, Whole of the rule(only the third sentence will be quoted here, context is in reference to flat out movement): "This represents the fast vehicle moving at top speed, without firing its guns and is treated in all respects exactly the same as moving at cruising speed for a vehicle that is not fast(except where noted otherwise)."

As you can see from the Above fast vehicles moving flat-out are still treated as moving at cruising speed in reference to fire points(The only rule-change for fast transports is that moving Flat out disallows Embarkation/disembarkation). The only time models my fire out of a transport is if that transport is moving at Combat speed(0-6" for most, 0-7" for Ork vehicles w/RPJ).

Marthike wrote:One fired told me yes, and another told me no.

The first friend is still stuck in 4th edition where this was possible. The second has read the 5th edition rulebook where passengers may only fire if the vehicle moved Combat speed or less.

I see I see, yes.

I think my firend are actully stuck in different edition of the codex lol


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PS thanks for the mod putting this in the correct fourm.

As a side note to why. If you consider it's pretty tough sitting in a car going 40 off road and still aiming correct. Now try sitting in a car going 90 over rocks and such and being able to even think about aiming.

icefire78 wrote:As a side note to why. If you consider it's pretty tough sitting in a car going 40 off road and still aiming correct. Now try sitting in a car going 90 over rocks and such and being able to even think about aiming.

but going 40+ and jumping out you can shot just fine ?

Whats funny is you can jump out when it goes 90 and still shoot fine. I guess they couldn't develop stable firing platforms on Rhinos yet they figured out how to make armor that can absorb a 90 mph impact with concrete.

icefire78 wrote:Whats funny is you can jump out when it goes 90 and still shoot fine. I guess they couldn't develop stable firing platforms on Rhinos yet they figured out how to make armor that can absorb a 90 mph impact with concrete.

Or the rule is just broken?

Prob matt wards idea...

cheapbuster wrote:Prob matt wards idea...

Oh Dear... Mat Ward, I hope he doesn't write the next Tau dex, he will ruin it for me, I definatley won't be collecting Tau if he makes the next dex.

Why? He makes:

Good rules (mostly!)
Good selection of generally well balanced units
Some good, some terrible fluff

As opposed to IG, written by Cruddace, where you have entirely useless units. Ditto Tyranids. Or Space Wolves, where you have imbalanced as all FETH units such as LF, powers such as JotWW, and the banner of cheese.

nosferatu1001 wrote:As opposed to IG, written by Cruddace, where you have entirely useless units. Ditto Tyranids. Or Space Wolves, where you have imbalanced as all FETH units such as LF, powers such as JotWW, and the banner of cheese.

The IG book has at least as good a balance of good & bad units as the SM book. Whirlwinds, anybody?!

(Whirlwinds could be totally awesome, but they're just not quite strong enough---I'd love to use them to pin BA jumpers, but they're just so unlikely to actually pin)

No, not at all.

IG Has: ST, Ogryn, Conscripts, SWT, bane wolf, most Russ variants, Collossus, Lord Commisar and a whole host of other units no doubt that do NOT appear in competitive lists. Ever. The SM codex is a lot more well utlised in competitive play (even when people dont go down the vulkan spam list)

So is the BA

So is the GK

ALL of these have far more variation in actually useful units than IG.

Ogryns can be really nasty, actually. I've seen big units of them in a couple of competitive lists this year, including the Adepticon Team Tourney list run by last year's East Coast Ard Boyz winner.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

icefire78 wrote:Whats funny is you can jump out when it goes 90 and still shoot fine. I guess they couldn't develop stable firing platforms on Rhinos yet they figured out how to make armor that can absorb a 90 mph impact with concrete.

Or the rule is just broken?

No, this is a rule which is clearly there for balance.

If the vehicle moves over 6" it has a much wider threat range, and enemies need a 6 to hit it in assault. Further, the unit inside can't be shot or assaulted until and unless the enemy pops the vehicle.
If it moves 6" or less it's hit on 4s in assault (triple the chance), and has 6" less threat range in any given direction.
If it stands still, the passengers count as stationary, and are still protected, but they just cover the area from where they stand and their vehicle is hit automatically.
If it drives up to 12" and the passengers jump OUT, they can still shoot (counting as moving). But then they're exposed to enemy shooting and/or assault.

In 3rd and 4th editions vehicle drive-bys were too good, so in 5th they've instituted a system where each of the above four options has different drawbacks and advantages.

Is it realistic? Probably not; although we've had ex-or-current military personnel post on here in previous threads about it that it's actually not uncommon at all to zoom up in an apc and have guys hop out into functional firing positions, whereas shooting from an APC moving at top speed over rough ground is very difficult. So it may not be all that unrealistic either.

Mannahnin wrote:Ogryns can be really nasty, actually. I've seen big units of them in a couple of competitive lists this year, including the Adepticon Team Tourney list run by last year's East Coast Ard Boyz winner.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

icefire78 wrote:Whats funny is you can jump out when it goes 90 and still shoot fine. I guess they couldn't develop stable firing platforms on Rhinos yet they figured out how to make armor that can absorb a 90 mph impact with concrete.

Or the rule is just broken?

No, this is a rule which is clearly there for balance.

If the vehicle moves over 6" it has a much wider threat range, and enemies need a 6 to hit it in assault. Further, the unit inside can't be shot or assaulted until and unless the enemy pops the vehicle.
If it moves 6" or less it's hit on 4s in assault (triple the chance), and has 6" less threat range in any given direction.
If it stands still, the passengers count as stationary, and are still protected, but they just cover the area from where they stand and their vehicle is hit automatically.
If it drives up to 12" and the passengers jump OUT, they can still shoot (counting as moving). But then they're exposed to enemy shooting and/or assault.

In 3rd and 4th editions vehicle drive-bys were too good, so in 5th they've instituted a system where each of the above four options has different drawbacks and advantages.

Is it realistic? Probably not; although we've had ex-or-current military personnel post on here in previous threads about it that it's actually not uncommon at all to zoom up in an apc and have guys hop out into functional firing positions, whereas shooting from an APC moving at top speed over rough ground is very difficult. So it may not be all that unrealistic either.

It just doesn't make sense how a vehicle that moves 12" cannot have it's passengers fire. Yet the passengers can make the vehicle move 12", then GET OUT 2" and still fire their weapons, surely if it was realistic you wouldnt be able to move flat out in a tank, get out and then still have time to fire your bolter?

@nosferatu1001: I'm glad you have managed to grasp a universal, exhaustive comprehension of competitive lists and play. You should write a good article about it so all the many blogs and forums continually debating it can save themselves the trouble.

I've seen competent to excellent players in reasonably to "very" competitive environments field a large portion of those units you list as categorically useless.

Given the argument that they're roughly equal in good/bad units, the IG should have more useless units---the book has 26% more units than the SM codex (63 to 50).

tjkopena wrote:I'm glad you have managed to grasp a universal, exhaustive comprehension of competitive lists and play. You should write a good article about it so all the many blogs and forums continually debating it can save themselves the trouble.

I've seen competent to excellent players in reasonably to "very" competitive environments field a large portion of those units you list as categorically useless.

Given the argument that they're roughly equal in good/bad units, the IG should have more useless units---the book has 26% more units than the SM codex (63 to 50).

QFT

Not categorically useless, however the MOST successful lists do not use them.

This is also wildly off topic, and was in response to a comment about Matt Ward writing a codex. Oh, and useless, antangonistic sarcasm noted. Attempting to keep things civil here, so I will not respond to you any further. Good day.

Godz - the game is a stop start abstraction; think about it like this:

If you stay onboard when the vehicle is moving at 12", its like the vehicle is maintaining that speed and firing is difficult. If you bail the vehicle could have slowed to let you bail before getting back up to speed again - so you have a second to gather your thoughts before firing.

However, whether it makes sense or not - those are the rules. I GO U GO doesnt make sense, and thats the basis of the game...

[quote=nosferatu1001If you stay onboard when the vehicle is moving at 12", its like the vehicle is maintaining that speed and firing is difficult. If you bail the vehicle could have slowed to let you bail before getting back up to speed again - so you have a second to gather your thoughts before firing.

Just a sidebar...

if the vehicle is shaken/stunned, the passengers cannot fire as well......unless they disembark.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:It just doesn't make sense how a vehicle that moves 12" cannot have it's passengers fire. Yet the passengers can make the vehicle move 12", then GET OUT 2" and still fire their weapons, surely if it was realistic you wouldnt be able to move flat out in a tank, get out and then still have time to fire your bolter?

A tank moving 12" is not moving flat out, and any transport that moves flat out cannot embark or disembark passengers the same turn it does move flat out.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:It just doesn't make sense how a vehicle that moves 12" cannot have it's passengers fire. Yet the passengers can make the vehicle move 12", then GET OUT 2" and still fire their weapons, surely if it was realistic you wouldnt be able to move flat out in a tank, get out and then still have time to fire your bolter?

Have we not made the point time and time again that logic should never be applied to the 40K universe? The laws of physics and motion that we understand have no bearing on that world. {end sarcasm}

Either way, there has to be some give and take in this game. Why does everyone think that they get to do cool things and pay no penalty for it? "I'll charge in 18" and just unload all of my weapons!" C'mon, people, its called strategy and tactics!

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:It just doesn't make sense how a vehicle that moves 12" cannot have it's passengers fire. Yet the passengers can make the vehicle move 12", then GET OUT 2" and still fire their weapons, surely if it was realistic you wouldnt be able to move flat out in a tank, get out and then still have time to fire your bolter?

Have we not made the point time and time again that logic should never be applied to the 40K universe? The laws of physics and motion that we understand have no bearing on that world. {end sarcasm}

Either way, there has to be some give and take in this game. Why does everyone think that they get to do cool things and pay no penalty for it? "I'll charge in 18" and just unload all of my weapons!" C'mon, people, its called strategy and tactics!

The fact that DEldar can charge up to 26" is unfair, Raider moves 12", they disembark 2", get a 6 for fleet and then 6 in assault, that's like assaulting first turn of the game if the opponent deploys 12" on. That's a big benefit for a little penalty (AV10 Vehicle)


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time wizard wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:It just doesn't make sense how a vehicle that moves 12" cannot have it's passengers fire. Yet the passengers can make the vehicle move 12", then GET OUT 2" and still fire their weapons, surely if it was realistic you wouldnt be able to move flat out in a tank, get out and then still have time to fire your bolter?

A tank moving 12" is not moving flat out, and any transport that moves flat out cannot embark or disembark passengers the same turn it does move flat out.

I'm not saying that you are put you get to move further and still shoot if you move 12" and then disembark 2" rather than moving 12" and shooting inside the transport, those 2" make all the difference for melta shots!

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote: The fact that DEldar can charge up to 26" is unfair, Raider moves 12", they disembark 2", get a 6 for fleet and then 6 in assault, that's like assaulting first turn of the game if the opponent deploys 12" on. That's a big benefit for a little penalty (AV10 Vehicle)

And Orks can go 1 better!
Ork player calls Waaagh, Trukk with red paint job can move 13", boys disembark 2", run 6", assault 6", equals a 27" assault move. Of course it can't occur first game turn though!

Now for the flip side of dark eldar, after the assault you have a unit of S3 T3 models sitting out (usually) in the open with a 6+ save!
Every force had advantages and disadvantages, tactics means making the most of both of these.

No, these are examples of the specialties of certain armies. If Imperial Guard, Space Marines, etc. could do it too, eventually it would make all the armies the same, just different paint jobs and minis.