Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

*SPECIAL DAKKA EDITION* Also seen on Astronomican, Dakka Dakk Trading Section, and perhaps others, feel free to copy, paste, spread,& place in alters and worship

Final Report by the Dragon on his Dealings With RedStarOne- Hat to be had but words to go with it

Greetings all parties who may or may not find themselves concerned.

My name is Adam otherwise known as The Dragon. The reason I am writing here is to discuss my final and surprisingly satisfying transaction report with Matthew Bonder aka Redstarone aka Red the Conversionist aka etc… --although not for the reasons you would believe.

I will begin with saying my transaction began on ebay with my winning bid of a nurgle plague tower that was of such an interesting mechanical tank design I simply knew I had to have it in some form or fashion for me army. Part of the listing was that the winning bid could request additional adjustments to the model. I requested that the plague-marine material be replaced with imperial creeds and marks of the Salamander space marines as I intended to use the vehicle as the obsidian chariot/engine of woes.

The money was sent and it was agreed the I would receive the model in short term. As the days went by however communicatios led to Redstar informing me it would be easier to simply construct me a similar based on the same chassis and then put salamander iconography on top of it. This is where things went wrong.

What should’ve been a 2-3 week time addition in a business transaction at most extended for weeks and with no further contact from redstar I panicked and began a complaint with ebay. When redstar finally responded he claimed that the delay was from him ordering parts and that MY reporting of him caused a hold on his paypal disabling him from completing my model. He told me if I dropped the complaint he’d have it to me as soon as it was completed. For the sake of time reference, I bought the original model in September and requested a received model by Christmas so I could use it in a semi-annual large Apocalypse game my friends and I play. He assured me beyond all doubt I would have it by then.

The weeks waged on and I had to fight and annoy to get updates. No matter how many message I sent or way I tried to contact him I got no response for weeks on end. I had thought then I’d been had. I filed an official complaint with my bank, the authorities, and paypal to try and recoup my funds. Imagine my surprise when I burned somewhere between 20-30 dollars of my phone time on talking to these individuals that the time frame for helping me had come and gone, and that what’s more, my efforts to try and find on ebay a method to appeal dropped complaints/settled complaints whose terms was violated had NOT in fact been in vain, but that their engineering of the website had intentionally made it all but impossible to discover it. I was angry and furious and it lead to me using what avenue I thought I had left—acting as an e-pest by creating a multitude of new user namers, e-mails, and effectively spam-blasting his different accounts to get some sort of response.


I got one and as it turns out this was the period wherein apparently his wife had finally sickened for the worst and eventually leading up to thanksgiving thereabouts where apparently she passed on. I attempted to be very forgiving in this time once he told me and I even tried to console him from time to time when we had short conversation via gmail chat. I could understand a delay for a man whom, as he had told me, lost a son and then a wife.

He then told me of his intention to create a blog and I encouraged him to do so, along with getting back into modeling, converting, and selling where able. This of course led to Miniature Wargame Conversions. Then, as January turned into February and so on and he began to again ignore my messages my panic grew and then I researched him and learned a great deal.

These sources are fairly symptomatic of what I found though many of them are more recent with myself participating in many even:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/355565.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/288950.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/290901.page
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=85026&page=7
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?p=916697
http://otzone.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=whine&action=display&thread=6696&page=2

When I was forced to result to the great spaz attack again I was heckled, like I was the first time, for filling up his inbox and that of his “friend’s”--- despite the fact that it was the only damn way nearly to get any response for weeks on end. Besides that however, when I question him on where my model was he told me it was completed but in Arkansas and it would take a few weeks to get it.

Cue two months later. I “encouraged him to speak” again via gmail and by also leaving posts which I thought possessed just enough comment for him to put on his MWC site while also leaving public hints that he owed me a model, perhaps one such comment remains. I knew I had to play it cool with him otherwise I would get the Alpharius treatment—see threads above, it’s not pretty and it speaks for itself. See here wherein I requested to speak to Alpharius after Redstar claimed he’d settle with him just days ago on Astronomican:

Redstar’s claims here: http://www.astronomican.com/showthread.php?21332-Pay-it-Forward-Free-April-Give-Away-Started!-NO-CATCHES-Seriously./page3

It’s at the very bottom, post #30.

The Truth here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/373172.page

Anyways at the point in time listed above, I got him to say he was shipping it to me finally. I rejoiced. I was glad. I thought maybe the guys on all the sites were wrong and it was drama.

I was wrong.

A month wherein I literally spent everyday waiting for a nevercoming post really sucked. I had to btw as I live in an apartment complex where packages that noticeable get up and walk away.

When I finally asked AND got ahold of him to ask what the hell was going on he told me he’d already shipped it to Australia and everything was fine.

That sent my oh $hit off as we had clearly discussed my living elsewhere. When I got onto him further he backtracked and claimed he had sent off another person’s package who just happened to be named Adam or some such rot.

Yeah…. Me too.

Anyways, he then promised me absolutely he’d be shipping it to me that Friday. Guess what happened?

Do we see a pattern?

Anyways, when I finally got ahold of him again after another expanse of time he was exasperated and then insisted, despite the fact I clearly had e-mail proving he was full of [bleep] that he had told me he intended to have the MONEY to ship it by then and had not in fact promised to do so…. Right.

I was not happy, I finally decided to see if playing it cool wouldn’t work playing the distressed friend would do anything. I asked why someone who had tried to be a friend to him etc. would be treated the way he had been treating me? Long silences, unwilling to communicate, and snappish at having been forced to do so. He admitted in our conversation that his behavior was inexcusable and he promised me, absolutely f-ing promised me on his word he’d ship it to me THAT self same Friday.

This was my last chance to trust him and also really, my last hope to get my money’s worth back for the model of $135.

I waited again and it never came. I even waited for an explanatory e-mail, an apology, ANYTHING and nothing EVER CAME.

I finally blew my lid and called him out for what he was , questioning why he’d even bothered talking to me in the first place if he was going to treat me like such refuse and so on and questioned his logic on why he’d bother wasting his time talking to someone he intended to screw over from the start. Apparently, he agreed and broke all contact.

Weeks passed and my anger stewed even more. Finally I wrote an e-mail threatening to unleash hell on him via forums within 3 days if he failed to respond. Unfortunately, or fortunately now from my perspective, I lost my lid before he could shovel more cow pie into my mouth and exploded on the forums. Trying to track him down, spread ‘awareness’ and if able place an embargo on his baby, MWC and the payitforward rally. A much, nicer version of that explosion can be found here obviously:

http://www.astronomican.com/showthread.php?21332-Pay-it-Forward-Free-April-Give-Away-Started!-NO-CATCHES-Seriously./page7

The much less nice version is here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/373136.page

Does some of it come off as ranting madman? Sure it does,many of you will even scoff at the ‘some, lol, but my back was up against the wall and frankly, to hellz bellz with anyone else who wants to call me a troll for it. My only options were this A) One final act of attempting to find a venue wherein Redstar actually gave enough of a damn about the people there to be appropriately cowed into doing SOMETHING for me or B) Trying to Impotently Burn Down His Already Wet Sand Castle by fruitlessly urging the hoards to abstain from any level of participation with it.

Thankfully, I found the calmer minds of Astronomican which genuinely seems to be filled with nice, if to my flavor vapid vanilla people when it comes to these sorts of things. For you geeks, they can be easily surmised as that race from Stargate the television show which had a ‘neutral trial’ for a gouald or how ever you spell it versus the human host. In the end, whatever ANYONE else did ANYWHERE else doesn’t matter, it’s their law that rules—Even if it makes you hopping mad. The less said of the [censored] at heresy the better as frankly I think you could put pictures of someone drowning kittens for gaks and giggles online and they’d clap for it as long as they got free stuff or it’s someone’s second cousin’s friend online, though again, to be fair, it IS heresy online, so what did you expect?

In any case, I found a situation wherein people had known Matt Bonder for years since way back on when, even had multiple people posting that they supported him, believed in him etc. I knew I had one last chance and it worked.

Red the Conversionist to me
show details Jun 2 (5 days ago)

Since you want to pull this crap when im not even in town to do anything about it, im having the person that called me at 1 am to tell me about your bs, mail you another tower. He has it at his home and can do it tomorrow afternoon. Im gave him this address that im replying to.

Go eat your hat with the tracking number and again, great job being an adult and waiting the 3 days like you yourself sent me in chat today.
- Show quoted text -


So here it is, I called him out just long enough before the thread was shut down for his ‘peeps’ to get on his case to handle me and it ended up pressuring him to finally send me a model at least close to what I had paid for and been promised. I haven’t seen it yet myself as my brother does not have a good phone camera, but I am pleased by what I’ve been told as it seems it’s at least close to what I wanted.

That said, do you expect me to clap for YOU now redstar one? You were forced into shipping me, by proxy or not, what you already owed me ultimately because a friend of yours called you at 1 am over it? Well, glad to hear you weren’t losing any sleep over the BS you pulled on me. Anyways, I did promise I would eat hat if I received my model, but in point of fact I haven’t really. Still, this is loads better than what I ever expected Alpharius to receive so I suppose I’ll eat it all the same. In a manner of speaking, that’ s even been what this whole post is about. Slowly digesting the Matter Bonder trading experience whether it be as redstarone, redstarone22, Conversion Corner, Miniature Wargame Conversions, Red the Conversionist, or any other handle. It’s biting into leather--unwelcoming, foolish, resistant, and foul tasting in the end.

And yet, even in that bitter, bitter twang there is the succulent flavor of victory because ultimately Matt I have won and you have lost. You have played so very many others I imagine it must be a novel experience, if you’ve bothered to read this lengthy post, to find yourself maneuvered in such a manner. As you like to use forums to shield yourself I have used them against you. The truth it seems is a blade which cuts through all?

That said, I ignore your last request through gmail with the response that they may suffer what the public wilt have upon them so long as they use the handle Miniature Wargame Conversions. I will not bother to aide and abet you in creating a lasting monument to yourself as to this day I have very real questions about the foundation of the give away itself when there are repeated mentions of a titan and thunderhawk owed in the dakka forums and you just happened to have completeted versions of them sitting around to give away. I cannot say further than that as it is pure speculation, but given the fact that if you told me the sky was blue I would wish to go outside to check … well. It speaks for itself.

** For those of you reading this on the Special Dakka Edition, you get special content as he sent me this feeble request**

Red the Conversionist to me
show details Jun 5 (2 days ago)

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/373136.page

Please ask them to remove any mention of MWC as frankly there is no reason for the writers and CO OWNERS of the site to be punished, especially when you did get the tank sent the day you posted it like we discussed.

Thank you.

IF dakka says no, ask them to at least edit out that info. Seriously, its hurting MWC.

I say Let it Burn. Can I get a Hoo-rah from the dakkites?

**Special Dakka Edition deleted scene end**


In conclusion, I debated my ending any and all conversation with, and or around redstarone and my dealings with him on one of two ways, one was to utilize a certain Khan quote involving spittle and the sake of hate and then there was this… which is so much more….hmmm… personal and also completely personifies how most all members of the different 40k forums really feel about their brethren being dealt dirty and their own defense of members mindlessly With that, I bid you all good day with the warning of this--- I gained as much satisfaction in my dealing with redstarone as could be had within the circumstances, but be wary trader with him and all others in your business as it is a long long long and arduous journey not guaranteed to reach the same destination as I.

My Message to Skrall whom had staked his word to support Redstar….

1. Taking YOU at your word to stand by Redstar's
Greetings,

My name is Adam and I am planning to tak YOU up on your word to stand by Redstarone's.

I am yet another of his jilted customers. on the post involving the arguments about his payitforward I have offered at the end of it an opportunity for him to defend himself and make restitution. On the other hand, if he fails to comment, make any fair restitutuion, or put to right his wrongs will YOU admit it if I bring grievance against him on this site or another?

You say he is trustworthy. I have trusted him and been let down each and every time. He is reknowned for hundreds of e-mails meaning nothing and despite his claim to finally having fixed the situation for alpharius no actual proof other than his say so was offered.

I hardly doubt you want the details of exactly what occurred and I fail to feel the urge to print them all once again, the point of this communication however is to see if, unlike he, you will abide your word.

His Response.

1. Re: Taking YOU at your word to stand by Redstar's
the reason i haven't responded to this earlier is simple; i'm not exactly sure what your asking me.

if your asking me; do i still trust him. the answer is no, i merely said i did publicly in order to give him a chance on this site, because members have a history of judging people before they know them then refusing to change thier opinions.

if your asking me for something else; i'd like to know what. the post in question was months ago, and i haven't been able to partake of the hobby in any real attempts in months, with even less time to check the internet out for the latest on the dramas. My honest opinion is i don't give a crap about either redstar or yourself, its not my business, however, it'd be moronic of me not to recognise if you've got legitimate issues then you've got the right to take those up, same for alphar. previous, when i was a mod, i'd of said don't turn the site into a pissing ground if that is your intention. However i have next to no involvment is anything these days, and as previously stated i don't care what you do to resolve your issue, it doesn't involve me. Do as you please, bring legal action against him, raise internet awareness, make an, what i believe the americans call an 'afterschool special' about redstar screwing you over, just don't expect me to get in any way involved.
The Ghost
Originally Posted by heinrichvoncarstein
You truly are barking mad!!! You say you're going to finish a tonne of stuff and then you just come up with more stuff to do! You are amazingly mentally ill, i wonder when the people in white jackets are coming for you?

Two things:
1)Why did we need to know this?
2)Why did it need to be posted here?
Also posting private mail on a public ofrum is a bit of a d**k move if you didn't ask Skrall but if you did that's fine...
Though i guess that is three things...

Nah, you were completely correct in your assessment that it's a dick move on my part. However, he also said he's basically completely out of it, the game that is, and given his earlier PUBLIC harm he did by supporting redstar on another site he forfeited his right to privacy when he revealed he knew he had been wrong on it and had not redressed himself.

Far too many users are willing to block and stomp very real converns when it involves someone they even vaguely know and when it turns out they were more the fool, they never want to address it. Now, as for why its germane to the general dakka public... trust me. if you don't already know this stinker's name count yourself three kinds of hella lucky. He's taken a lot... i mean a LOT of hobbyists for a ride. Hopefully, some who will see this may enjoy him get it at least in some small way while others may recognize his various handles and NOT get swindled.

I do already know his name...
There has been a thread about this in the Moshpit.
At any rate people are people and for some reason they form strangely close attachments to people they meet online...

That is of course always a strange situation which works for both good and ill. It really has been all sorts of strange to me see Alpharius, who's been around here since forever and a day, getting reamed on other sites because he's a 'newb' or some such drivel.

It really is an issue, but one which I can hardly devise a successful counter for. In any instance, I really am considering doing my own blog where I basically, pardon the pun, troll the trading blocks of the various big names and essentially put out 'insurance reports' as they were on the various frequent traders as well as some ways to screen beforehand for new traders. I've actually seen some rather clever tricks for ebay.

Yeah that was raise din the thread as well.
It seems like you could be looking at some pretty solid lawsuits if you do what was mentioned on the thread, though i'm not a legal expert so i couldn't tell you.

IMO you should just drop it. Many people are not happy you brought this up. Then again i can't tell you what to do so go figure...

I hear an awful lot about lawsuits, but truthfully defamation of character or libel is almost impossible to hold in an open forum conversation. Additionally, if it comes to it, I do have the balance of records on my side along with time dimensions,etc. I'd rather it not go that far of course, but if needs must there's really nothing I can be held to at this point as in his efforts to improve his image on astronomican he also disallowed me of any guilt, hurt-feelings, etc... That would certainly look awkward in court and with this last message, well, I'm done. I'd rather never speak to the man again. In the end, it wasn't even HIM who seny anything, but this mysterious friend named Jeff I believe and he has no proof of the model he claims exists even actually does unless he spontaenously post pictures of it tonight or something. Even if he did, he's admitted as such that his friend at close hand has several similar models and would it really be impossible for Red the Conversionist to alter them on demand in retrospect to create a product which had not existed before?

See, now we're entering crazy country.

I don't really care for all the fears of lawsuits in discussing bad traders. Could it potentially spin out of control? Mabye but that's why we document document document. If I ever do continue on to start a blog or some all I'll really need to do is give it time, a new Ip number, and a maybe a trackphone for the google id. problem of id solved. badoom-pah.

I see this got moved back to the Swap Shop from 40k General Discussion, and it probably does belong here more than anywhere else.

I'm very glad you were able to get a model back from redstarone... that is almost unprecedented at this point. However, I do need to lock this thread, as redstarone is permanently suspended from Dakka for not following through on his trades, and so can't post to defend himself. I will leave the thread up so that people have the information and can follow up with you if wanted/needed, but as we discussed please PM me before posting any more like this... this is the 3rd thread you've posted about this in a week!

So, locking...