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Are scourge a good de unit? Need to decide before I buy the models. Just thinking 6-8 shards carbines with 2-4 gatekeeper blasters deepstriking seems a good plan.
Anyone tried it?
Does it work well?

Maybe.

That's as helpful an answer as anyone is going to be able to give you, since you gave us no information on the rest of your list, or where/who/what you usually play. Scourge do not exist in a vacuum, and interact with your list differently depending on what is in your list. Post what you're running, and maybe somebody can give you a more constructive answer.

If I took Scourges, I would give them haywire blasters. They are good for suppressing vehicles, and are one of the best weapon Dark Eldar have for killing monoliths, and BT LRCs

I think there are way better options to do what you are planning on having them do. just my 2 cents.

It depends on how they will complement your current list/play style.

As stated, it all depends on how they fit into your army synergy.

Haywire Blasters are great, and at very least allow a very good chance of limiting returning fire - which is often just as good for DE players. Hell, you may even get a free penetrate! Combine that with a 24" range, plus a 12" move (they are assault weapons), and you have a 36" threat range. They are so effective, I've been thinking of taking out my Heat Lance Reavers and putting in another squad of Haywire Blaster Scourges.

Splinter Cannon Scourges are also one of the most cost-effective splinter weapon outfitted units in the army (just scraping behind Warriors and Trueborns in Venoms). A full squad can put out 34 poisoned shots on the move, or 42 if they remain stationary.

Scourges are also generally more survivable than the average DE unit, since they have a 4+ armour save.

Cheers guys just I can then get trueborn in raiders. I'm planning for a 3k game against nids was thinking of a list containing

Hq

Archon,
Husk blade
Shadowfield
Drugs
Ghostplate

Elites

9 incubi
Raider

10 trueborn
Raider

10 trueborn
Raider

Troops kabalite warriors (a few squads)

Fast attack

3 x 10 scourge
Splinter cannons

Heavy attack

2 ravagers
Razorwing (just cause I want the model)

This is a rough list not finalised or worked out points cost.

My theory is make his mc take lots of saves and obliterate the little stuff.

My main worry is if he takes a stealer army


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh add shards carbines to the trueborn

I personally would recommend against Trueborn in Raiders, due to the cost versus potential damage output. I'd rather suggest putting them in Venoms. It's 90pts cheaper, with only a relatively small reduction in potential damage output, and you get the same maneuverability, PLUS the ability to fire two Splinter Cannons after moving 12".

I'd also recommend against such a large force of Incubi. They are definitely going to get things killed, but it's arguably overkill - which translates to wasted points. I personally prefer using 5 of them with an Archon in a Raider, rather than 9. Tears through most things outside of full-squad mobs - which you'll only likely encounter with Ork players.

I also don't use Huskblades that much, as Agonisers seem to do enough for me - they are power weapons, so they synergise with the Incubi, and the 4+ poison makes up for low strength.

Scourge with Splinter Cannons are great, but don't discount Hellions, especially against Tyranids and Orks. They are really good combatants, and have great maneuverability. They get 3 attacks on the charge, AND are strength 4 - combine that with their Assault 2 poison weapons they can fire before launching combat, they are very, very good for cleaning up squads. And hey, they have combat drugs!

If you include the Baron, they get +1 cover saves, an additional 5 attacks at strength 5 on the charge, AND they get to reroll their hit-and-run tests, as well as the distance they travel. Plus, the Baron gives you a +1 to your roll to see who goes first, and Hellions will count as troops.

In regards to heavy support... since it's Tyranids, you don't need to rely on AV, mass poisoned weapons will generally get the job done - so you have the rare advantage of not heavily relying on Ravagers. Take the opportunity to try out the Talos or the Cronos - though the Talos generally works best when popping out of a Webway portal.

Also, don't discount Wracks. 3 poisoned attacks on the charge, automatically come with Feel no Pain, and if you put an Incubi with them, they will be able to re-roll failed wounds against targets with T4. Plus, Incubi will allow them to be troops, so another scoring unit. Against Tyranids, they are arguably the better close combat choice over Wyches, due to poison.

Why do they reroll if an haemonculus is with them?

Griffin55k wrote:Why do they reroll if an haemonculus is with them?

Two pain tokens = feel no pain AND furious charge

Edit: never mind, furious charge is just +1 INI +1 STR...don't think the haemo grants prefered enemy.

In my opinion, huskblade isn't worth it unless you have soul-trap as well.

The Huskblade is a trap in itself, you want the bonus strength so you can get the kill in the first place but after that it becomes pointless. Its a fun combo if you have points to burn (and then you just take Vect anyway), but I would probably just go for the Electrocorrosive whip + Soul Trap and tarpit the character to death before getting to S6 and going on a rampage.

Griffin55k wrote:Why do they reroll if an haemonculus is with them?

With a Haemonculus, they will have Furious Charnge, giving them +1 Str on the turn that they assault. With Str4, they now match toughness 4. Wracks have Poisoned close combat weapons. With Poison CCWs, if your strength is equal to or higher than the target's toughness, you get to reroll missed to-wound dice.

Do not take 10 man squads of scourges... Take small 5 man squads with 2x splinter cannons. this will help them keep a lower profile. and make them easier to not get assaulted. I have a bunch of scourges. If you play a tank army keep them 5 man with haywires and if you play a horde army just give them splinter cannons. i know your dark lances will be forn anti tank. but when you have a couple rhinos charging at your objectives. The scourges will stun them all day until you can get your lances on them.

I really like scourges. You know your opponent is bringing his Nids, and you are trying to tailor your list against his--pretty brutal situation for your opponent with you having access to so many poisoned shots--you'd be wise to bring splinter cannon scourges.

I would suggest Duke Sliscus in a venom with 4 trueborn. Give the trueborn 2 splinter cannons and 2 shard carbines. ANd give the Venom 2 splinter cannons as well. That gives you a lot of 3+ poisoned shots that most nids wont be able to save because they are AP 5 andit will force a TON of saves on monsterous creatures.

And if you plan on putting the archon with the incubi i suggest giving him the Phantasm grenade launcher instead of the ghostplate armor. The shadow field is fine for saves as for the huskblade i would replace that with an agoniser.

Good call on using splinter cannon scourges. Good way to kill MCs

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:I would suggest Duke Sliscus in a venom with 4 trueborn. Give the trueborn 2 splinter cannons and 2 shard carbines. ANd give the Venom 2 splinter cannons as well. That gives you a lot of 3+ poisoned shots that most nids wont be able to save because they are AP 5 andit will force a TON of saves on monsterous creatures.

I actually don't know if Duke Sliscus' ability affects the Splinter Cannons on the Venom, or only the Kabalite Warriors/Trueborn inside the Venom. I've pondered about this myself... but never came to a solid conclusion.

That said, even if it doesn't effect the splinter cannons, I agree that putting him in a raider with Trueborn is the best value vs wound output you can get with him.

Kharrak wrote:

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:I would suggest Duke Sliscus in a venom with 4 trueborn. Give the trueborn 2 splinter cannons and 2 shard carbines. ANd give the Venom 2 splinter cannons as well. That gives you a lot of 3+ poisoned shots that most nids wont be able to save because they are AP 5 andit will force a TON of saves on monsterous creatures.

I actually don't know if Duke Sliscus' ability affects the Splinter Cannons on the Venom, or only the Kabalite Warriors/Trueborn inside the Venom. I've pondered about this myself... but never came to a solid conclusion.

That said, even if it doesn't effect the splinter cannons, I agree that putting him in a raider with Trueborn is the best value vs wound output you can get with him.

It effects them if he joins that squad. His rule says that all splinter weapons in the unit he is deployed with gains 3+ poisoned as long as he is with them. As for the venom I dont know either

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa: Splinter cannons are cost effective on Scourges?

10 points per model for 1 extra shot on the move for a unit of jump-packers is not cost effective.

It will be very rare that your anti-infantry gunners are going to be more than 30" away from an enemy unit to begin with(and yes 30" is the ShardCarbine range on Scourges) so if you are paying 20 points to upgrade 2 Scourges with Splinter cannons in order to get double the shots from them, you are dropping 2-3 Free Shardcarbines from range(assuming you are not moving and the target is more than 18" away), and if you are moving to bring the rest of your Shard carbines to bear, you are paying 20 points for 2 shots without any other benefits.

Scourges should either be anti-tank, or Bare Anti troops. Take them with 2 Haywire Blasters/Heat lances(never with Dark lances, and Blasters are too expensive for what they do); or just leave them all with Shard Carbines.

I suppose it depends on how you use them. I personally find the potential damage increase with Splinter Cannons is quite satisfactory, and seems to make them overall more desirable points vs wound output wise (at least, according to my homebrew excel math-hammer worksheets ).

I personally prefer using them to jump into hold outs and snipe away at infantry out on the table edges, and if anything gets close enough, that's 21 shots (up from 15 shots). And then they can jump 12" towards the next target.

Yes, it's true that Scourges can fire upon anything within 30" (12" movement and 18" Shardcarbine range) - but I tend to prefer keeping my scourges in cover and out of general range, as they tend to get shot up quite badly otherwise.

Maths time:

5 Scourges cost 110 points.

5 Scourges with 2 Splinter Cannons cost 130 points.

Ok you have added only 18.18% of the cost to the base unit, not bad.

At 18.000001-30", however, you lose 20% of the total shots(assuming the Cannon unit stood still, while the base unit moves). This proves this method to be almost criminally inefficient; an 18.18% increase in cost, for a 20% Decrease in Fire Volume is horrid.

18" or less is the only time the Cannon unit shines, where it increases the killing power of the unit by 140%(or rather in a more accurate statement if the cannon unit does not move and the enemy unit is within 18" that unit will have 140% of the fire volume that an all carbine unit will have). However while this seems to make the 118.18% price tag extremely efficient it will not work more than once against most opponents, and twice against poor ones.

If the cannon unit is greater than 18" from its target and moves, however the Cannon unit has only increased it's fire volume to 113.333% of the Carbine(and remember that is at a cost of 118.18% of the carbine unit). Roughly 5.15% difference in fire volume/cost, while moving, equates to an inefficient option. Overall this is actually going to be the most common option with them, move and fire with reduced efficiency, as the squad gains some firepower(as opposed to standing still with 3 guns not firing), and the enemy blindly walking to within 18" for you to blast away with impunity is going to be a rare occurrence.

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:

Kharrak wrote:

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:I would suggest Duke Sliscus in a venom with 4 trueborn. Give the trueborn 2 splinter cannons and 2 shard carbines. ANd give the Venom 2 splinter cannons as well. That gives you a lot of 3+ poisoned shots that most nids wont be able to save because they are AP 5 andit will force a TON of saves on monsterous creatures.

I actually don't know if Duke Sliscus' ability affects the Splinter Cannons on the Venom, or only the Kabalite Warriors/Trueborn inside the Venom. I've pondered about this myself... but never came to a solid conclusion.

That said, even if it doesn't effect the splinter cannons, I agree that putting him in a raider with Trueborn is the best value vs wound output you can get with him.

It effects them if he joins that squad. His rule says that all splinter weapons in the unit he is deployed with gains 3+ poisoned as long as he is with them. As for the venom I dont know either

It does not affect the Venom's splinter cannon, since the venom is a separate unit, which is why it can shoot at a separate target than the unit embarked on it.

Scourges, Imo, should be used strictly for AT. The Haywire blaster is golden for fire suppression of tanks, but should avoid transports where possible. Scourges aren't really worth spending the points on for more splinter weapons when you have the option of taking venom's upgraded to 2 splinter cannons that fire 12 shots for 65 points, vs the scourges who have 17 shots for 130 moving or 21 when stationary. The venom outranges the scourges, without moving I might add, and for the same number of points (2 venoms), puts out more shots. Bring more venoms if you want more splinter weapons.

The basic issue with Scourges is very simple - there are other units in the codex that do what Scourges do but do it better and/or for less points.

As such, Scourges are okay - but generally not advisable until all of your Heavy, Elite, and Troop slots are maxed out. At that point Scourges become pretty viable for what they bring within the Fast Attack slot - though I personally prefer how RJBs handle anti-tank, and Beastmasters handle anti-infantry as opposed to how Scourges do so as both of those do that better and/or cheaper than Scourges.