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ok, so im planning on recreating this Tank Diorama i did 6 years ago


its going to to be a much bigger scene.

naturally ii want to tell a story that would make sense, so what im thinking of doing is

having an Ethereal captured in the Rhino and the Tau are trying to rescue him, hence why theyre climbing all over the tank as opposed to just blowing it to kingdom come.
i was going to have 12 guardsmen and 6 space marines defending the Rhino.

i was going to have 6 space marines just going to be the chapter im currently working on, but on second thought i was thinking of making them 5 Grey Knights and an Inquisitor instead. what do you all think?

thoughts? opinions? advice?

Nothing?

Thoughts: use brighter colors to more clearly draw a distinction between the guardsmen and the Tau

Opinions: I like the overall idea, but the diorama seems kinda chaotic - you've got Tau swarming all over, one guy is taking cover and looking away from his buddy who's in close combat

Also, you've got a guy with a lasgun turning a Tau's head into hamburger... doesn't look too realistic (lasguns leave scorchmarks) - I guess they could be autoguns, which would be accurate though

Is there a drone up there? What is he doing?

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Advice:

Have the top of the tank be removable. Inside, model a guardsmen or two holding the Ethereal hostage (arms behind back, blindfolded - or unconscious or something)

Xarian wrote:Thoughts: use brighter colors to more clearly draw a distinction between the guardsmen and the Tau

Opinions: I like the overall idea, but the diorama seems kinda chaotic - you've got Tau swarming all over, one guy is taking cover and looking away from his buddy who's in close combat

Also, you've got a guy with a lasgun turning a Tau's head into hamburger... doesn't look too realistic (lasguns leave scorchmarks) - I guess they could be autoguns, which would be accurate though

Is there a drone up there? What is he doing?

--

Advice:

Have the top of the tank be removable. Inside, model a guardsmen or two holding the Ethereal hostage (arms behind back, blindfolded - or unconscious or something)

thanks for the opinions and advice.

the new Tau color scheme is going to be Bleached bone and Brown. the IG im not sure ill probably keep the standard Green and brown

yeah i want it to be chaotic, and in the new one is going to be much bigger and more chatoic if anything.

when i did this, i knew almost nothing about 40K, i want to make a much more faithful portrayal of a skirmish. so yeah, i didnt know what lasguns would do (still dont really). ill probably just put a hole through that Tau's head now. would that make sense?

the Drone crashed into the tank after being shot up.

as for the Ethereal, thats exactly what i was planning, i was going to try (i have no idea how) wiring a little red light though it to light the inside of the tank up. but i think your idea might be better haha. i was gonna have him tied up and a guardsman holding a gun to his head.

Guardsmen don't ride rhinos, why not use a chimera? Have the turret gunner recoiling away from an assaulting tau, the back door blown off and the Ethereal and guardsmen inside looking shaken-pehaps one firing blindly-, with some guardsmen piling out from the hatches, and the Tau moving in laying down fire-lead by a shas'el with his bonding knife held aloft of course, plus blown off tank tracks and the like. The Tau wouldn't turn feral because their leader's been captured, sure they may be a bit foolhardy, but I doubt they'd be that indocrinated that they start clawing at the hatches trying to get in. Maybe the Ethereal's just been captured in the field-thus a more practical outfit for him- and the guard are taking him to their leaders-so no need for inquisitors or Khorne Knights (as the tau would be stupid to go hand to hand with them). =/

If you want guard and tau in a melee then ditch the rifles on both sides.
Possible scenario. Tau have damaged the transport carrying their leader badly enough to stop it moving without repairs. They then besieged the vehicle until the defenders ammo ran out. Then they moved in to rescue their leader but the guards inside came out with blades and pistols and their fists to fight them. The tau were unable to use their own rifles at such close distance and drew their own combat blades while others used their rifles like clubs - things get messy.

Off to the side more tau are pressing in to circle the defenders waiting to see what the outcome is. At the same time more imperials have arrived and are about to or are fighting their way through the tau surrounding the melee combat to help the defenders. You could use more guard or maybe one or two space marines smashing and blasting their way through the outer line of tau.

Whatever you do, come up with the story first, who the people in the story are and why they are there. Then work them into the diorama.


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Do tau have red blood?

Tau using mass suicide tactics dosen't sound like the greater good to me. I'd start your diorama in the artwork stage, sketch it out and build a terrain piece for it. Tau are clever warriors they'd likely be using sneaky tactics like a diversion while the real force comes up from behind the enemy... A battle suit landing ontop of the vehicle gunning down space marines would be cool but you'd need to show the line of brave firewarriors causing the distraction,


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Tau are blue skinned so would not have red blood like orks are green skinned and run on photosynthasis so would not have red blood or red toungs but 40K is a fantasy sci fi thing so who cares.... Oh yeah I do Tau would probably have white or deep blue blood depending on if you decide that they have whiteish flech (deep blue blood) or blue flesh (white blood)

But then again frogs are green and their blood is still red...

I think all animals on earth have red blood but tau aren't from earth. Doesn't mean they don't have red blood but it may be that they don't.

Mainly, I just find it odd that there is so much going on on top of the tank. None of the top hatches are open, so did the guardsmen and tau both climb on top of it to fight each other?

Why is the rhino motionless enough for the fighting to be taking place around it? Model some damage to it to show that it is immobilized, or redo the diorama.

Thin down your paint, it looks a little thick on top, doesn't look like it went on too smooth.

And you have to consider some things- do you want the Imperium looking like they're gonna win this one or the Tau? It affects whether more of the guardsmen or more of the tau are going to be getting killed horrifically in the diorama.

If I were you, I'd model all of them doing things appropriate to their fluff. In other words, have guardsmen looking more scared/not doing anything too cool, having marines kicking ass gloriously in close combat or from afar, doing things straight out of a ridiculous action movie, and having the tau sitting back and sniping more so than getting up close and personal.

Just my two cents, hoping to help you make the diorama the best it can be.

For general advice, you might check out a cool book called Hot to Build Dioramas by Sheperd Paine. It's mostly aimed at military modelers, and a lot of the specific modeling/crafting stuff isn't too useful for 40k stuff, but there's some really good advice about artistic design and composition for dioramas that's useful to anyone.

Maybe the tau should be replaced by kroot.

Yeah, replacing the tau with kroot isn't a bad idea. Maybe have some kroot up close assaulting the guardsmen/marines around the rhino and have some tau farther away picking them off.

Wyrmalla wrote:Guardsmen don't ride rhinos, why not use a chimera? Have the turret gunner recoiling away from an assaulting tau, the back door blown off and the Ethereal and guardsmen inside looking shaken-pehaps one firing blindly-, with some guardsmen piling out from the hatches, and the Tau moving in laying down fire-lead by a shas'el with his bonding knife held aloft of course, plus blown off tank tracks and the like. The Tau wouldn't turn feral because their leader's been captured, sure they may be a bit foolhardy, but I doubt they'd be that indocrinated that they start clawing at the hatches trying to get in. Maybe the Ethereal's just been captured in the field-thus a more practical outfit for him- and the guard are taking him to their leaders-so no need for inquisitors or Khorne Knights (as the tau would be stupid to go hand to hand with them). =/

they cant ride in Rhinos? i thought i remember reading a long time ago that any Imperial force could use a Rhino... are you sure?
and that aside im going to add a squad of Space Marines to the new diorama, they cant tag alone?


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cadbren wrote:If you want guard and tau in a melee then ditch the rifles on both sides.
Possible scenario. Tau have damaged the transport carrying their leader badly enough to stop it moving without repairs. They then besieged the vehicle until the defenders ammo ran out. Then they moved in to rescue their leader but the guards inside came out with blades and pistols and their fists to fight them. The tau were unable to use their own rifles at such close distance and drew their own combat blades while others used their rifles like clubs - things get messy.

Off to the side more tau are pressing in to circle the defenders waiting to see what the outcome is. At the same time more imperials have arrived and are about to or are fighting their way through the tau surrounding the melee combat to help the defenders. You could use more guard or maybe one or two space marines smashing and blasting their way through the outer line of tau.

Whatever you do, come up with the story first, who the people in the story are and why they are there. Then work them into the diorama.


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Do tau have red blood?

i like that idea. i think i will add more melee in the new one.


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imark789 wrote:Mainly, I just find it odd that there is so much going on on top of the tank. None of the top hatches are open, so did the guardsmen and tau both climb on top of it to fight each other?

Why is the rhino motionless enough for the fighting to be taking place around it? Model some damage to it to show that it is immobilized, or redo the diorama.

Thin down your paint, it looks a little thick on top, doesn't look like it went on too smooth.

And you have to consider some things- do you want the Imperium looking like they're gonna win this one or the Tau? It affects whether more of the guardsmen or more of the tau are going to be getting killed horrifically in the diorama.

If I were you, I'd model all of them doing things appropriate to their fluff. In other words, have guardsmen looking more scared/not doing anything too cool, having marines kicking ass gloriously in close combat or from afar, doing things straight out of a ridiculous action movie, and having the tau sitting back and sniping more so than getting up close and personal.

Just my two cents, hoping to help you make the diorama the best it can be.

well the Guardsmen were defending the tank from up top and the Tau are climbing up to over take them. when i made this diorama 6 years ago, i didnt plan anything out, it was all improvised. im going to have a XV88 in the distance which will be the cause of the Rhino breaking down. the treads will be broken.

lol, yeah my painting wasnt that good back than.

The Tau are going to win, but the Guardsmen are fighting to the death. i know it doesnt make a lot of sense for the Tau to charge them like that, but i think sitting back and sniping the guards from a distance will take a lot of fun out of the piece itself. im probably going to have them engaging in close quarters combat because they ran out of ammo.




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Motortree wrote:For general advice, you might check out a cool book called Hot to Build Dioramas by Sheperd Paine. It's mostly aimed at military modelers, and a lot of the specific modeling/crafting stuff isn't too useful for 40k stuff, but there's some really good advice about artistic design and composition for dioramas that's useful to anyone.

thanks, ill look into it!


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cadbren wrote:Maybe the tau should be replaced by kroot.

yeah i was thinking of adding a ton of kroot to the new diorama. but i still want Tau in it.


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Thanks for the feedback everyone! i really appreciate it!

Vulpes89 wrote:
they cant ride in Rhinos? i thought i remember reading a long time ago that any Imperial force could use a Rhino... are you sure?
and that aside im going to add a squad of Space Marines to the new diorama, they cant tag alone?

Rhinos were once planetary exploration vehicles before they were repurposed as troop transports during the Great Crusade. All Imperial forces had acess to them then, but like a number of other pieces of equiptment, due to losses dure in the Horus Heresy they are now solely used by the Adeptus Astartes and those organisations issued them by the Inquisition or High Lords of Terra. So yeah, unless an Inquisitor told them to jump into it, its unlikely a guard unit would have acess to a Rhino (a chapter approved article stated that Space Marines "frown" upon- or kill to those unknown to Grimdark- others using/repurposing their equiptment). Anyhow, Chimera's offer up so much more modelling potential. ^^

Well you should at least open up the top hatches of the tank...would the guardsmen really run out of the tank and then climb on top of it? It makes no sense. I don't think it makes much sense for the guardsmen to be on top regardless, but it is your diorama.

Wyrmalla wrote:

Vulpes89 wrote:
they cant ride in Rhinos? i thought i remember reading a long time ago that any Imperial force could use a Rhino... are you sure?
and that aside im going to add a squad of Space Marines to the new diorama, they cant tag alone?

Rhinos were once planetary exploration vehicles before they were repurposed as troop transports during the Great Crusade. All Imperial forces had acess to them then, but like a number of other pieces of equiptment, due to losses dure in the Horus Heresy they are now solely used by the Adeptus Astartes and those organisations issued them by the Inquisition or High Lords of Terra. So yeah, unless an Inquisitor told them to jump into it, its unlikely a guard unit would have acess to a Rhino (a chapter approved article stated that Space Marines "frown" upon- or kill to those unknown to Grimdark- others using/repurposing their equiptment). Anyhow, Chimera's offer up so much more modelling potential. ^^

well, i looked around a bit and did some research and found that there are actual Rhinos made specifically for the IG. although what i found i think was very old and probably out of date, still thought it might be worth mentioning. the chimera might work though.... ill probably have to take the battle on top off though. which would probably make more sense like Imark said....

i guess what i could do is have the IG in the tank, and the marines escorting it when the Tau ambush it and all hell breaks loss.


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imark789 wrote:Well you should at least open up the top hatches of the tank...would the guardsmen really run out of the tank and then climb on top of it? It makes no sense. I don't think it makes much sense for the guardsmen to be on top regardless, but it is your diorama.

The tank was my set piece when i made this, i had/have no terrain, so i made the tank the terrain. im going to build the terrain from scratch for this new diorama. also i thought it looked pretty dramatic having them duke it out on top.

maybe ill have some sneaky tau, climbing on top and placing some detonating charges on hatch doors for this new one, instead having them battle it out on top.

Rhinos and Chimeras both have top hatches which have ladders leading out of them, so it is plausible that should say a Kroot jump on top of the vehicle and hammering on the hatches that a guardsman would simply open the top hatch and shoot the thing between the eyes-npt realising that other kroot are climing up onto the roof and having the fight them hand to hand up there as a result.

Any fluff written during the Rogue Trader era or 1st ed is considered to have mostly occurred about the time of the Horus Heresy, or to be mostly obsolete. But hey, there's a million million worlds out there apparently, so anything could happen.

Wyrmalla wrote:Rhinos and Chimeras both have top hatches which have ladders leading out of them, so it is plausible that should say a Kroot jump on top of the vehicle and hammering on the hatches that a guardsman would simply open the top hatch and shoot the thing between the eyes-npt realising that other kroot are climing up onto the roof and having the fight them hand to hand up there as a result.

Any fluff written during the Rogue Trader era or 1st ed is considered to have mostly occurred about the time of the Horus Heresy, or to be mostly obsolete. But hey, there's a million million worlds out there apparently, so anything could happen.

i might use that idea, and i just ordered my box of kroot yesterday! 14 bucks on Amazon!