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HQ is CCS w/ vox, gren. launcher
60pts

Elite
Marbo ( just cause you need at least one option, or on some games you auto give up pts)
65pts

Troop
(2) PCS w/ vox, 2 meltaguns
(2)55 pts (110)

(8) 10 man sq w/ gren and vox
(8)60pts (480)

Fast Attack
Valkyrie w/ Las
115 pts

Heavy Support
SQ1
Russ w/ H. H. Bolter and S. H. Bolter 170pts
Russ w/ H. H. Bolter and S. H. Bolter 170pts
Punisher w/ H. H. Bolter and S. H. Bolter 200pts

SQ2
Russ w/ H. Las and S. H. Bolter 185pts
Russ w/ H. Las and S. H. Bolter 185pts
Russ w/ H. H. Bolter and S. H. Bolter 170pts

SQ3
Russ w/ H. Las and S. H. Bolter 185pts
Russ w/ H. Las and S. H. Bolter 185pts
Demolisher w/ H. Las and S. Plas. Can. 220pts


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I figure use the tank to kill everything. Target priority other tanks, dev. sq., fire dragons, etc. Depending on the game i will combine sq. to have less kill points. They will have to kill all three russes in squad to get the kill points. Hide the ccs behind big blobs to give orders and not give up kill points. If objective based will use valkyrie to traffic 10 man squads where needed. use marbo for target of opportunity or block objective, or if game is going well just keep back so as to not give up kill points.
Also thinking if drop one russ take a master of ord they are just fun, some commissars for tests, or assorted meltas or h. weapons.


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what army would give me the most run for my money, was thinking something melta heavy but, then ill put men in front of tank to take care of tank hunters, heck may even assault stuff with ten man squads so tank get into better positions

You will have to combine those squads, so only take as many voxes as combined squads (assuming you take voxes at all). At big points vlaues there is never a time you would run them as 10 man squads if not in a chimera.

If running blobs you do really need to put power weapons and commissars in there - possibly even a priest or two as well.

Why would you want a punisher and a demolisher in a squadron with a normal russ. Range and target priorities are totally different.

With orders on a blob squad, you don't need the punisher. Drop him to pay for the upgrades above.

I would then also look to drop the demolisher and try to squeeze 3 vendettas into the FA slots. Drop some HB sponsons if you need to shave a few points.

To answer your last question bluntly every well built army will give you problems because your list isn't well built. You've picked poor weapon choices for units, lack troops and essential models to help your army. You have also over spent on heavy support by a lot.

What you need to is give the CCS Creed as he makes a foot list awesome. Give a lascannon or autocannon.

Then take a PCS with flamers maybe for counter assault flamer-ness or grenade launchers for some ranged attack, personally I'd go grenade launchers.

Troops would be best with autocannons add a power weap on the sgt is someone assaults you and form the troops up so 20 strong. You must add a Commissar with power weap to stop your troops running away.

Then add some heavy weapon teams for more ranged firw power, you need a Lord Commissar btw for these to stop them running away.

Then ditch all the Russes and get ordnance. If you want ordnance squadron consider a Griffon for accurate bombardment special rule

So I've never been to 'Ard boys and I've never played a 2500pt game. But I'm going to comment on your tanks anyway, because one of us may well learn something. First of all, I believe leman russ tanks should be taken in squadrons of one or two, for various reasons.

I don't see the point of squadroning LRBTs. 2-3 LRBTs are outmatched offensively by a single manticore against anything but space marines. I'm not saying that's not important, but a single executioner is a much more cost-efficient way of killing them.
LRBTs do have one thing over manticores - armor, and they do have two things over demolishers - range and price. If you want two pieces of AV14 capable of pulling cover shenanigans and equipped to inflict heavy damage on bunched troops or whatever anywhere within LOS, a squadron might be worth it. I would give them lascannons for a decent chance against vehicles.

I really don't see the point of squadroning executioners. If 5 PCs doesn't kill it, what's left isn't worth another tank to deal with. Maybe if you go up against meq horde regularly. I also wouldn't squadron exterminators, because you're not usually going to need another 4 TL shots against their preferred targets the dreaded light transports. Eradicators... I like them myself but I've never needed more than one period, much less another in the same squad.

Demolishers I've seen people squadron. Unless I were using creed, however, I'd try to keep them separate. Since they're so dangerous, any enemy is likely to try and shoot them straight to hell. Here, squadroning them defeats the entire purpose of presenting two to three lethal threats since they all count as one target.

Punishers. Darkhound had an interesting thread a while back wherein he reported success with a squadron of two. It was, if memory serves, their ability to put most squads at total risk through sheer force of wounds that was most appealing. When you need two of them shooting the same thing anyway, a squadron will actually make them more durable because of cover and smoke and so forth. I'm feeling a bit like trying two punishers myself. But not squadroned with LRBTs.


Second of all, I think your tanks have too many sponsons. You're spending 160pts on 16 heavy bolters, of which probably none are going to get to fire. HB sponsons look like a great deal on paper, but they're pretty underwhelming when you get started. When you're in close formation, which happens quite a lot when you're fielding more than 7 vehicles, you can't fire the sponsons on any but the outermost tank. If you're not, most of the time you can't draw LOS with both. When this happens, you might as well have not bought them and fired the hull HB instead. When both can draw LOS, you can bet your ass that your opponent is firmly in the "sponsons count as separate weapons" camp. If he's not, congratulations, you can fire two heavy bolters.

However, you can't fire both the sponsons and the hull weapon in the same turn (unless you forfeit the turret shot but yeah), which makes them an even worse buy on the tanks that have hull LCs. Now, this is HB sponsons I'm talking about. The PC sponsons on your demolisher suffer from many of the same drawbacks, but they will help it stay just as dangerous when its turret gets blown, so there's always that.



TL; DR: too many tanks, lose the sponsons.

I want spam, i want 9 leman russes I want to sit back and drop 9 pie plates a turn have approx 54 H. Bolter rounds and 9 las shots with my russes, the valykrie is for ferrying 10 man squads. Thinking two ten man sq, 1 20 man sq, and one fourty. Will lose some of the voxs, and melta guns, for flamers to get a commissar for the 40 man sq. The officers are there to keep the gaurd in line, with get back in there. I was putting the demolisher in there for strength ten so +1 pen in event i come across a land raider. The punisher is there for have 29 strenght 5 shots for mowing down blobs, hordes, or bike squads. In freindly game my punisher alone mowed down a squad of 9 ork bikers, better than average rolling but all the same. Picture this on One flank 2 russes and punisher mowing stuff down, in center is dem and 2 russes dropping pie plates. And on other side 3 more russes drpping even more pie plates. Now since is Ard boyz i will seem opponent army list before battle, if heavy anti armor, then men in front of tanks to black assaults, if heavy anti-infantry then men advance behind tanks. I will give some of the posts props i need some support on the men like commisars or power weapons. But people are going to be preped for taking out 1-3 Av 14 tanks. But unless they are ready for 9, my shooting phase is going to hurt. Also I dont want an obscene amount of men, I could feild easily prob my 300-350 IG, but moving and shooting would take forever in a game that is only at most going to be 2.5 hrs. I give up points if i dont take at least one option under fast and elite, so that is why i have at least one of each. I own 18 russes of dif varients, but one valkyrie so, im only take one beleive me i would find ways to take three valykries.


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mercer wrote:To answer your last question bluntly every well built army will give you problems because your list isn't well built. You've picked poor weapon choices for units, lack troops and essential models to help your army. You have also over spent on heavy support by a lot.

What you need to is give the CCS Creed as he makes a foot list awesome. Give a lascannon or autocannon.

Then take a PCS with flamers maybe for counter assault flamer-ness or grenade launchers for some ranged attack, personally I'd go grenade launchers.

Troops would be best with autocannons add a power weap on the sgt is someone assaults you and form the troops up so 20 strong. You must add a Commissar with power weap to stop your troops running away.

Then add some heavy weapon teams for more ranged firw power, you need a Lord Commissar btw for these to stop them running away.

Then ditch all the Russes and get ordnance. If you want ordnance squadron consider a Griffon for accurate bombardment special rule

I dont want a foot list!! So no creed. And My support is men supporting tanks, and tanks supporting men. I am going to take some commissars, and my tanks have sponsons so have to take them. And even in white dwarf tactica, take one extreme or the other so many men lascannons are useless, or so many tanks half army guns cant pen. At AV 14 everything st. 8 only glance, strength 9 pen on 6+, Really concerned with st 10 but if its on the table then target priority #1

All people are saying is that this list would get wrecked by a lot of armies that face it. A well built mech guard army would take this apart, as would a decent ork list. Leman Russes are not the byword for unstoppable tank spam. If you really want to spam tanks and have a reasonably competitive list, build a decent mech guard army

It for me comes down to what I own I have two chimeras and 18 russes I have3 to go russ heavy, I want peoples help to keep my list 90 % intack and help with the other 10% so that I dont get annihalted. Also for readers I live in Idaho only three game stores in entire state, Lists ive seen in last three ard boyz tournaments dont build to defeat 9 russes, the cost is too much for most persons that play 40k so they wont see it coming.

OK, so you want to keep the list intact, as much as possible. I feel the diadvantages of a heavy LR build has been stated already so I will skip that and go right in to what you are looking for.

First is it an option to run demo instead of LRBT. I have seen the demo wall work well in some situations. Run them base jut a cannon and the standard bolter or if you have the choice to mod it on, HF would work very well.
Second run mech behind your demos, get a hand full of plasma/melta vets in chimeras. Don’t max it out, I would say 3 would do good. Power blobs wont work here, you need to be aggressive and run you opponent off there table edge.

Fast attack, vendettas are better then Valkyries in all respects other then horde control (and your demos have that on lock down.

For your Elites. In ard’ boyz it can be just as bad to have a week choice in an elite slot as it is to have no choice at all. This is why I don’t use storm troops in my 2500 list. The PBS is a very strong unit that can have some very strong staying power

Ok take a look at this list

Hq
CCS + melta x4
Chimera HF/ML

Elite
PBS + 4 psykers
Chimera HF/ML

PBS + 4 psykers
Chimera HF/ML

Troop

Vet + melta x3
Chimera HF/ML

Vet + melta x3
Chimera HF/ML

Vet + melta x3
Chimera HF/ML

Fast

Vendetta

Vendetta

Heavy

Demo x 3

Demo x 3

Demo x 2

This should be 2500 on the dot

i hope that helps, if demo isnt an option, you can use the LRBT and add the left over points for one more vendetta, (just shave a melt off one of your vet/ccs.)

If possible, I would find the points to make at least one of the squadrons into all Punishers.

2011/06/08 23:39:35 Subject: 2500 Ard Boyz IG Tank Spam
If possible, I would find the points to make at least one of the squadrons into all Punishers.

Why???

P Monty wrote:I want to sit back and drop 9 pie plates a turn have approx 54 H. Bolter rounds and 9 las shots with my russes

That's a great ambition but the thing is, your russ squadrons make up 1670 out of 2500pts. They can only engage three targets and unless it's a foot meq squad or a light to medium tank, they're not even that great at it. Also, they themselves ARE three targets.

I'll admit 9kp at 2500pts is impressive, but it's not worth losing 2/3 of games over. Even in KP, there's a lot of things that can take out even a squadron of tanks pretty easily or cost-efficiently. What would you do against 10 wyches with haywire nades in a raider? Even one squad will be a task to take out and at 2500 you're looking at 4-6.

Oh and someone said vendettas are always better than valkyries in every respect. This is not true, the valkyie is a better transport, but you're not helping its footing by sticking on a lascannon.

Almarine wrote:

P Monty wrote:I want to sit back and drop 9 pie plates a turn have approx 54 H. Bolter rounds and 9 las shots with my russes

That's a great ambition but the thing is, your russ squadrons make up 1670 out of 2500pts. They can only engage three targets and unless it's a foot meq squad or a light to medium tank, they're not even that great at it. Also, they themselves ARE three targets.

I'll admit 9kp at 2500pts is impressive, but it's not worth losing 2/3 of games over. Even in KP, there's a lot of things that can take out even a squadron of tanks pretty easily or cost-efficiently. What would you do against 10 wyches with haywire nades in a raider? Even one squad will be a task to take out and at 2500 you're looking at 4-6.

Oh and someone said vendettas are always better than valkyries in every respect. This is not true, the valkyie is a better transport, but you're not helping its footing by sticking on a lascannon.

Agree with the above. Your squadrons can only shoot at 3 targets a turn - and what target would you want to shoot both heavy bolters and lascannons at?

Valkyrie is mainly a transport with guns, while vendetta is a lascannon platform. If you trim LR squads down to 2/squad you can get 3 vendettas in the list and you can then target up to 6 vehicles a turn.

I know you want to build an army from the units you have, but 9LR in an Ard Boyz environment is going to cause you problems as you can't take out enough targets soon enough. If you insist on the 9LR, then I would trim the fat off these - ie go for lower cost versions and drop the heavy bolters and then invest in your infantry or a vendetta.

You dismissed Mercer's advice as you didn't want to run a foot list, but have over 90 infantry models on the table. Hmmm

Man, 18 Russes?!?! Why did you buy so many Russes? I mean, I am impressed, but you would think just swapping turrets and using magnets you would need at most 9.

Tell you what though, I will not touch your tanks. I will defer to what has already been mentioned. If you want your troops to support the tanks, you need to make them capable in CC, because one way to not get shot is get in CC, then you can't drop a pie plate on anything.

Get a Commissar for each blob, go two blobs of 30. Get 4 power weapons for each, 3 meltaguns and 3 meltabombs.

March one blob between each LRBT Squad. If you want to use Orders, remember that the CCS or PCS has to be within 12". I would throw your CCS in between the blobs and try to keep each Blob within 12" of it. Put a Regimental Standard in it and now your blobs are Stubborn and re-roll moral and pinning tests. I will not go into the debate of if the Commissar or the Banner goes first, I say choose the Banner. Put Melta or Plasma in your CCS in those last 3 slots. Don't waste the BS 4. Put a Vox in there if you really want to use it.

I like putting SWSs or even PCSs in Vendettas/Valks. Put 3-4 flamers in the squad and use them to burn out enemies in cover camping enemy objectives.

HWSs, being effectivily part of a troop choice counts as a scoring unit. I really have to agree with Almarine that you doing a diservice to your list if you don't use HWSs and even Creed and a Lord Commissar. At 2500pts your going to have more than 3 targets per turn to fire on with your tanks. The infantry need to pick up that slack. Right now they don't do anything at range.

You use those heavy weapons to pop transports (with ACs) and the like while your tanks focus on more important targets. If you scatter, as blast markers are want to do, finish the job with Lascannon HWSs.

If anything, if you have 2 Chimeras, put your PCSs in them and use them to camp captured objectives. I like putting 2 Meltas and 2 Flamers in them. Put a hull Heavy Flamer on it and with the 2 flamers you have a really good chance of clearing out enemy campers in cover. You have 2 melta guns incase a walker or a vehicle gets close and you have the Multi-Laser on the Chimera to pop transports at range.

Good luck!

P Monty wrote:
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mercer wrote:To answer your last question bluntly every well built army will give you problems because your list isn't well built. You've picked poor weapon choices for units, lack troops and essential models to help your army. You have also over spent on heavy support by a lot.

What you need to is give the CCS Creed as he makes a foot list awesome. Give a lascannon or autocannon.

Then take a PCS with flamers maybe for counter assault flamer-ness or grenade launchers for some ranged attack, personally I'd go grenade launchers.

Troops would be best with autocannons add a power weap on the sgt is someone assaults you and form the troops up so 20 strong. You must add a Commissar with power weap to stop your troops running away.

Then add some heavy weapon teams for more ranged firw power, you need a Lord Commissar btw for these to stop them running away.

Then ditch all the Russes and get ordnance. If you want ordnance squadron consider a Griffon for accurate bombardment special rule

I dont want a foot list!! So no creed. And My support is men supporting tanks, and tanks supporting men. I am going to take some commissars, and my tanks have sponsons so have to take them. And even in white dwarf tactica, take one extreme or the other so many men lascannons are useless, or so many tanks half army guns cant pen. At AV 14 everything st. 8 only glance, strength 9 pen on 6+, Really concerned with st 10 but if its on the table then target priority #1

I didn't say add more troops on foot I said for foot list (you have units on foot) Creed will make them awesome, plus about 100 infantry is a foot list, so Creed is required. Btw your men cannot support tanks because they are too short ranged and your tanks are long range.

What you said about White Dwarf tactica doesn't make sense, but then again the tactica doesn't either . Your tanks are only armour 14 on the front and can be flanked.




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P Monty wrote:I want peoples help to keep my list 90 % intack

HQ

Company Command Squad - Lord Castellan Creed & autocannon - 150
Lord Commissar - 70

Troops

Platoon Command Squad - 4 x grenade launchers - 50
3 x Infantry Squads - Commissar w/ power weapon, 3 x autocannons - Sgt w/ power weapon - 255
3 x Heavy Weapon Teams - 3 x lascannons - 225

Platoon Command Squad - 4 x grenade launchers - 50
3 x Infantry Squads - Commissar w/ power weapon, 3 x autocannons - Sgt w/ power weapon - 255
3 x Heavy Weapon Teams - 3 x lascannons - 225

Fast Attack

Vendetta - 130
Vendetta - 130
Vendetta - 130

Heavy Support

2 x Leman Russ Battle Tanks - 300
2 x Leman Russ Battle Tanks - 300
2 x Leman Russ Battle Tanks - 300

Total:2,570

Your over on points by 70, you could drop the Lord Commissar which makes it 2,500 on the nail, but he's needed for the HWTs. I've kept it intact for you best I can by keeping the CCS, the Platoons which you have 60 dudes from infantry squad plus the PCS and Commissars, more Vendettas and still got the Russes, but only in squadrons of 2. Problem you'll have is with armour 14 which at 'ard boyz and in 2,500 lists will be common.

based on the critque, I have come to the conclusion that 9 russes arent going to work in Ard boyz, will revise a list and make new post