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I'm not trying to bash Magic or anybody who plays it, but I've never understood the attraction of it (I know the same is said of Warhammer FB and 40k all the time) and was wondering if maybe one of dakkas Magic fans could explain it? What draws you to play it, and why is it so much fun? What pulled you into the game in the first place? I know it is not as expensive as either of the warhammer games, but it must still cost a good amount of money to play, so I was wondering what about it could get people to drop money on it.

It's a collectible card game (or trading card game) that one might initially begin by buying a pack or so of cards. Those cards have various different effects and most require 'mana' (obtained from 'land' cards - your resources) to be used.

To play competitively the price is similar to tabletop wargaming, believe it or not. 'Rare' cards (they're tiered according to rarity which usually also matches their relative usefulness) can be quite expensive because as the card packs are random there's quite a big secondary market.

The cards compliment each other in different ways which makes up the main focus point of the game. I might have a 'landfall' deck made up of monsters that gain considerable buffs every time I place a land card into play. There are a lot of powerful 'green' monsters that have the landfall rule so it'll predominantly be a 'green' deck with 'green' (forest) land cards.

Now let's say while I'm building up this offensive force I'd like to deal with a few early-game threats - I might hybridise my deck with red or black cards which are often cheap and powerful damage-dealers but not necessarily very resilient. Some monsters and spells have multiple 'colours' of mana required such as a powerful and cheap one-turn buff that costs 1 red and 1 green mana (Colossal Might) - these cards can't be used unless I'm actually using red and green resources so this is a factor in the design of my deck - I might use all five colours but it's a hard concept to balance and pull off easily. Single-coloured decks tend to have more focus and fewer resource problems.

I don't really play myself but an old wargaming club had a few TCG players that were pretty into it and I enjoyed the odd game with a borrowed set. The rules are quite simple and there's a PC game version that is restricted but involves all of the game mechanics if you want a cheaper way to try it out - it's pretty cheap on Steam.

Well, all those 30 year-old men with greasy ponytails that live with their mommies have to do something with all their time.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:It's a collectible card game (or trading card game) that one might initially begin by buying a pack or so of cards. Those cards have various different effects and most require 'mana' (obtained from 'land' cards - your resources) to be used.

To play competitively the price is similar to tabletop wargaming, believe it or not. 'Rare' cards (they're tiered according to rarity which usually also matches their relative usefulness) can be quite expensive because as the card packs are random there's quite a big secondary market.

The cards compliment each other in different ways which makes up the main focus point of the game. I might have a 'landfall' deck made up of monsters that gain considerable buffs every time I place a land card into play. There are a lot of powerful 'green' monsters that have the landfall rule so it'll predominantly be a 'green' deck with 'green' (forest) land cards.

Now let's say while I'm building up this offensive force I'd like to deal with a few early-game threats - I might hybridise my deck with red or black cards which are often cheap and powerful damage-dealers but not necessarily very resilient. Some monsters and spells have multiple 'colours' of mana required such as a powerful and cheap one-turn buff that costs 1 red and 1 green mana (Colossal Might) - these cards can't be used unless I'm actually using red and green resources so this is a factor in the design of my deck - I might use all five colours but it's a hard concept to balance and pull off easily. Single-coloured decks tend to have more focus and fewer resource problems.

I don't really play myself but an old wargaming club had a few TCG players that were pretty into it and I enjoyed the odd game with a borrowed set. The rules are quite simple and there's a PC game version that is restricted but involves all of the game mechanics if you want a cheaper way to try it out - it's pretty cheap on Steam.

I'm not quite so interested in how to play it, but why so many people are so attracted to it and why people spend money on it. I know everyone has their hobby, and a lot of people probably think it's foolish of me that I spend money on 40k, but I just don't see how I could justify it to myself to spend that much money on cards. For instance, even if that expensive card would help you beat the regulars you play against, what's the fun in that? You buy a decent card and whoop everybody since you spent more money than them, how is that entertainment? Is playing the game really fun enough that you can spend that much money on it? I was just looking for some sort of explanation as to why the people who play it do...

rubiksnoob wrote:Well, all those 30 year-old men with greasy ponytails that live with their mommies have to do something with all their time.

Rofl...yeah I went from one FLGS with Magic posters plastered all over the front to another that had a packed parking lot due to a Magic tournament full of those guys, so it made me wonder what makes the game so ridiculously popular. But I want a good, honest answer out of somebody who understands the attraction to the game, which will most likely be an avid Magic fan, so I'm not making fun of anybody.

rubiksnoob wrote:Well, all those 30 year-old men with greasy ponytails that live with their mommies have to do something with all their time.

Wow, you say that while posting on a board that argues about plastic soldiers.

I collect 40k and magic, and I'm 21, living in my own place, and i've had many an evening of fun playing both, so I'm just going to tell you to shut up.

Whenever you open up a fresh pack of cards, you might notice a small bit of powder in them. This is cocaine.


To be serious, my friends played it, and when I switched scout troops, a whole bunch of them played it (I was very surprised), so I learned. I'm not the greatest player, but I think the allure is that A) for a card game, its rules are very good, B) it requires little/no setup and is great for a quick game anywhere, which ties into C), it can be casual, competitive, or anywhere in between. And D) is a minor point, but opening up a randomized pack of cards gives you that "gambler's thrill", where you might just get that one really good card. But each pack still comes with at least one gold card and some number of silvers, so you're never wholly gypped.


And seriously, are we actually gonna bash magic players? I'm just saying, the average tabletop gamer isn't much better than what you've been describing. In fact, I've met a few of the "live w/ their moms" at a 40k local event. Not a positive site.

I don't thinks it's really possible to explain why something is enjoyable to someone who just doesn't get it.

I play because it is a game where I can play with my friends without all the set up time of 40k. The social aspect is very similar so it's good for when I don't feel like spending 30 minutes setting up a table.

Whether your playing competitively or not there is still the enjoyment that comes from trying to out play your opponent. Similar to wargames- while you might not be playing competitively you still play to win. The enjoyment I get from it is the same as the enjoyment . While the rules are simple the tactics aren't so you will be trying to put your plan into action while stopping your opponent from doing the same. I get from a casual 40k game, the type of thinking involved is the same but MtG is much faster paced, so you can got through multiple plans before you win. It's also fun trying to come up with the best plan using what you have. Apart from the best competitive players most people don't know every combination of their cards. You have to come up with a good combination on the spot.

I justify the money I spend on how much enjoyment I get. Do your really believe 28mm of plastic is worth £5-6. It isn't, however you buy it for the enjoyment you get from having it. Unless you play competitively it's a very low cost game. Of my 3 decks one cost about £100 and the others £10 each.

Just buying an expensive card won't let you win. There are a lot of cheap cards in MtG that will destroy expensive ones. Besides most groups have a level that they play at so the quality of decks doesn't vary.

When I played oh-so-long-ago it was more for the sheer fact that i could socialize with my friends who played and just have a good time. I was never the best, in fact I lost a lot, but it was fun to go in and buy a pack of cards from time to time and build a fun deck. I never really liked the competetive crowd.

I play magic, but not as competitive as I used to. I find the usual problem that unless you invest a lot in it you don't get anything back as you continuously lose apart from against newbies. It is a good game with decent mechanics, but another reason I don't play as much as WoW TCG is that in MTG you get mana screwed alot, as in not drawing enough lands and the game becomes pointless for you. Also WoW is a lot cheaper, for example where the best rare in a set of MTG can go up to about 100$, it rarely goes above 20$ in WoW, and most rares are 2-5$. Also, I prefer the system, stacking damage etc. But yeh people play MtG because it's addictive, it's like paper crack.

micahaphone wrote:Whenever you open up a fresh pack of cards, you might notice a small bit of powder in them. This is cocaine.


To be serious, my friends played it, and when I switched scout troops, a whole bunch of them played it (I was very surprised), so I learned. I'm not the greatest player, but I think the allure is that A) for a card game, its rules are very good, B) it requires little/no setup and is great for a quick game anywhere, which ties into C), it can be casual, competitive, or anywhere in between. And D) is a minor point, but opening up a randomized pack of cards gives you that "gambler's thrill", where you might just get that one really good card. But each pack still comes with at least one gold card and some number of silvers, so you're never wholly gypped.


And seriously, are we actually gonna bash magic players? I'm just saying, the average tabletop gamer isn't much better than what you've been describing. In fact, I've met a few of the "live w/ their moms" at a 40k local event. Not a positive site.

I know, us warhammer gamers are just as bad :( honestly, I just thought it was a funny comment, especially after hitting up my LGS and seeing a huge crowd of hardcore magic fans, and who doesn't find those guys slightly laughable (no matter the game they play)? But believe me, I know 40k attracts that crowd of weirdos too...

4M2A wrote:I don't thinks it's really possible to explain why something is enjoyable to someone who just doesn't get it.

I play because it is a game where I can play with my friends without all the set up time of 40k. The social aspect is very similar so it's good for when I don't feel like spending 30 minutes setting up a table.

Whether your playing competitively or not there is still the enjoyment that comes from trying to out play your opponent. Similar to wargames- while you might not be playing competitively you still play to win. The enjoyment I get from it is the same as the enjoyment . While the rules are simple the tactics aren't so you will be trying to put your plan into action while stopping your opponent from doing the same. I get from a casual 40k game, the type of thinking involved is the same but MtG is much faster paced, so you can got through multiple plans before you win. It's also fun trying to come up with the best plan using what you have. Apart from the best competitive players most people don't know every combination of their cards. You have to come up with a good combination on the spot.

I justify the money I spend on how much enjoyment I get. Do your really believe 28mm of plastic is worth £5-6. It isn't, however you buy it for the enjoyment you get from having it. Unless you play competitively it's a very low cost game. Of my 3 decks one cost about £100 and the others £10 each.

Just buying an expensive card won't let you win. There are a lot of cheap cards in MtG that will destroy expensive ones. Besides most groups have a level that they play at so the quality of decks doesn't vary.

Well this was sort of the response I was looking for, I know I'll never totally understand the attraction, that's like expecting to be able to explain my warhammer interest to my girlfriend, it just isn't going to happen. But I can understand it to a degree now that you have enlightened me. I wanted an honest opinion like this out of somebody who enjoys the game, and I can understand that it is a lot quicker and easier to set up than warhammer. Justifying that you spend the money on something overpriced when I spend even more on something even more overpriced is a very good point...

scarskull5 wrote:I play magic, but not as competitive as I used to. I find the usual problem that unless you invest a lot in it you don't get anything back as you continuously lose apart from against newbies. It is a good game with decent mechanics, but another reason I don't play as much as WoW TCG is that in MTG you get mana screwed alot, as in not drawing enough lands and the game becomes pointless for you. Also WoW is a lot cheaper, for example where the best rare in a set of MTG can go up to about 100$, it rarely goes above 20$ in WoW, and most rares are 2-5$. Also, I prefer the system, stacking damage etc. But yeh people play MtG because it's addictive, it's like paper crack.

Thanks everybody for explaining this to me, hope I didn't offend any Magic fans, I just wanted to hear what it is about the game that makes you keep coming back to it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I didn't realize Magic was a Large Scale, Roleplaying or Board Game...

I play casually with friends, and yes i still live with my mum.

However I don't spend as much money on it as other people I play against. It is alot easier to play a quick game of magic than a 3 hour game of 40k, and you only need to carry round a small box.




Ps: im only 15, thats why i live with my mum
Pss: i agree, i didnt think magic was a "Large Scale, Roleplaying or Board Game" eheir

Just so you know, jp, living with your parents only becomes bad when you are 30 or so and have no plans of moving out, or getting a job.

It's just as bad to live with your mom at age 25 though and have your girlfriend move in too. A guy I used to know did that...and he's an assistant manager at Wal-Mart. Impressive...

He used to play Magic and Warhammer until his girlfriend made him give them up

that poor poor dude.
we will onour the passing of one of our own.

on other news i play 40K WHFB Titan legions warmaster and i also run a black magick deck.
i also play DnD and various other wargames.

Don't honor him. He's a donkey cave. He isn't worth it.

??
Donkey cave??
??
ah well we still lost another one of us.
one less to fight the war against the um uh who are we fighting again

I am nearly 30 and and engaged man living with his fiancee, thank god I do not fall into the ponytail category. I always realised there were other things in the world than wargames or CCGs.

Magic for me though is maybe the best game ever made. The fundamental system is very very simple which adds to its brilliance. Over the MANY years lots of special rules have been added to make literally BILLIONS of options in making a deck. I am not a tournament player, not outside me and the lads having a laugh anyway. Tournaments for the few experiences I have had produce the worst MTG players. Very anal, very boring,very smelly weirdos (i understand thats not everybody before you all threaten to slit my throat and leave me to your dog for dinner).

MTG has had loads of new editions over the years, some bring fantastic rules or cards to the game, some that really suck.

You have the 5 colours and you can create a deck using as many of these as you wish. Each colour has its style and also has its colours that it allies well with and its enemy colour.

You have 20 life but its not the only way to kill someone. You can reduce their deck to nothing so they can not continue. There are so many ways going about either of these, thats the beauty of magic. Making a deck to do a clever combination you have thought of or styled to a certain theme is great fun, even more so when you manage to get a combination to work REALLY well.

Magic can be a quick 5 minute game or a 5 player all against all 1 hour stand off.

The beauty of magic is that its all things you look for in wargaming all rolled into one.

It is true that due to how tough it is to get a warhammer game going I rarely ever get to play...I mainly just paint my armies waiting for the day they ride to battle now. That must be nice to be able to play so easily with magic.

I've played quite a few CCGs and can't say that Magic gripped me. There's lots of different cards, but game always feels the same and unmemorable. It's quite simply laid out, basic rules are easy to get, there's a load of cards and I'm sure the more complicated rules and cards spice it up but they are all cards and pictures and things and monsters that are largely meaningless to me so they all look the same and a rare card is no more special looking than a common.

My favourites were the Star Wars and Star Trek CCG. I think the Star Wars one probably had the steepest learning curve of any CCG I've tried, and then you start putting in the various expansions. Generally I try to 'theme' a game to constrain the special rules to one set like Jabba's Palace or Cloud City. Otherwise you get bogged down in rules for carbon freezing captured cards and feeding people to the Sarlacc.

But it was an epic game, all the cards come with a bit of blurb, often informative or humourous, I learnt the names of a lot of obscure characters that way. And the rare cards were often something that felt like you'd won something in the pack. When I was first getting into it I remember getting a single pack for my birthday and pulling out Darth Vader himself. Later on I bought a lot of every expansion set as they were released and picked up bulk deals on sets of commons and uncommons. It's very easy to buy up a large proportion of cards cheap this way and grab a few rares too. I think I have multiple copies of all the main characters and cool stuff like the Death Star which with the right card you can blow up a planet, and remove all those locations off the map. Just don't let the rebel alliance deploy the Death Star Trench or the tables could be turned!!

Magic well... didn't have the magic that Star Wars CCG had. I was heartbroken when Lucasfilm took the licence away from them preventing them from going on to make card sets for episodes 2 and 3. The License was given to Wizards of the Coast who produced some game to go with Episode 2 that was a flop and simply forgotten. I don't know if it had anything to do with it, but WotC was owned by Hasbro which George Lucas himself has a stake in. They just ruined the Star Wars CCG community and fanbase.

A night of magic and Warhammer = ectasy

Star trek, dispite the fact that I have never been a fan of the shows, I thought was not a bad game, bit limited but a nice change of pace.

Star Wars, despite me being a huge fan boy for many many years now, I thought was an absolute pile of . Never has a game with WARS in the title produced so little combat. I do like the idea you have said about themes for the game and feel that would have helped my past experiences.

Magic is awesome, its the classic example of quick to learn, years to master it. Generally people who think its simplistic have not seen the range of decks and themes and styles that can be produced from the cards.

lukewild1982 wrote:Star Wars, despite me being a huge fan boy for many many years now, I thought was an absolute pile of . Never has a game with WARS in the title produced so little combat. I do like the idea you have said about themes for the game and feel that would have helped my past experiences.

It helps to limit the number of locations people can stack in their decks and encourage them to take roughly the same planets (theme the game). Otherwise you have loads of locations and different planets and the rebels and imperials never meet.

exactly what we found, pants game!!

I started playing it because some of my classmates were. Plus I was into fantasy type stuff. I've spent a lot on cards when I used to play. I'd buy by the boxes. I like the combos you can sometimes pull off... the art is pretty cool too. Also it provides some social interaction. Now a days I only play the online version. I can't picture myself collecting the physical cards again. In fact I 'threw away' all my magic cards (rares and all) because they are very difficult for me to get sell/trade especially since its mostly obsolete stuff.