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1 Archon w/ Huskblade, Soul-trap, Clone Field and Combat Drugs
1 Syren w/ Agoniser and Haywire Grenades
3 Hekatrix Bloodbrides w/ Shardnet + Impaler and Haywire Grenades
5 Hekatrix Bloodbrides w/ Haywire Grenades
Raider w/ Flickerfield

1 Haemonculus w/ Liquefier
1 Hekatrix w/ Agoniser and Haywire Grenades
7 Wyches w/ Haywire Grenades
Raider w/ Flickerfield

4 Kabalite Trueborn w/ Blaster
Venom w/ Dual Splinter Cannons

4 Kabalite Trueborn w/ Blaster
Venom w/ Dual Splinter Cannons

1 Kabalite Warrior w/ Blaster
4 Kabalite Warriors
Venom w/ Dual Splinter Cannons

1 Kabalite Warrior w/ Blaster
4 Kabalite Warriors
Venom w/ Dual Splinter Cannons

1 Kabalite Warrior w/ Blaster
4 Kabalite Warriors
Venom w/ Dual Splinter Cannons

1 Kabalite Warrior w/ Blaster
4 Kabalite Warriors
Venom w/ Dual Splinter Cannons

3 Ravagers w/ Flickerfield

Total 1847


The Archon wrecks face with the Bloodbrides. The combo of 3 Shardnet + Impalers and Clone Field should make the Archon virtually untouchable while he kills enemy characters and becomes a CC machine with Soul-trap. The only problem is no FNP if/when the Raider explodes.
A bit of MSU tactics happening here...
I'm wondering whether this list is plausible, or whether the opponent would immediately shoot my death star out of the sky. My plan would be to try to assault first turn to avoid this, or to put them in reserve and flat out to get wherever they are needed if I don't get the first turn (and that wonderful 4+ cover save).
Looking at using this list for a GT in August. Comments please!

well from personal experience, shadow field over clonefield any time.
if you roll bad once (i.e. only one negated hit) then you'll be squished against anything t6.
with only a 5+ save lots of attacks like from an ork mob will eventually get you as well, since you can only reduce the attacks of models in the first row of cc but any model behind them will hit with full attacks.

i'm not too fond of aethersails and shock prows either, shock prow tend to blow up your own raiders, and i rather save them (if possible) for some last-round objective contesting.
dark lances of trouborn are the worst choice (this has been discussed many times), since you lose all your precious mobility and get only 2 36" shots instead of 4 24" shots.

finally (this is rather a personal thing) i would change the bloodbrides for normal wyches, cause lets face it they don't do much more but only block an important elite choice, then change one warrior unit to trueborn (again blasters here).
in addition i'd try to cut costs here and there (maybe drop the haemy, reduce wych numbers to 7ish something, drop grenades, drop wych weapons) and get a third wych unit in a raider.
but again last two points are just personal preference.

Agreed with Sieek.

Clonefields, need to be D6+1 to even be considered over a Shadowfield.

@sieek & Eyclonus:

Y'all are missing the point of the combination. The DE player maneuvers his Archon and 'Net wyches such that the Archon & 'Nets base up with the same model while ensuring no other models can base up with the Archon. Thus, the only model that can direct attacks at the Archon will be suffering from a negative 2-3 to its attacks. Considering the Archon has a WS of 7, very few things will be hitting him on better than a 4+. Against almost all opponents, even ignoring a single hit will make it statistically a waste of time for most models to direct attacks against the Archon.

To use maths, if the DE player only gets two 'Nets in BtB with the Archon's target, that target would have to have 6 attacks to average getting one hit through on the Archon, even if the Archon only rolls a 1 on the Clone Field effect. (6 - 2 attacks from the 'Nets, of which 2 hit.) Most of the targets that the Archon would go after have 4 or fewer base attacks.

Now, this is absolutely not a simple tactic to pull off, and it takes a lot of careful placement & maneuvering of the squad. That being said, my Archon has not died in close combat a single time since I started using this build back in December.

EDIT: I forgot to point out that the Archon is I: big number, and the Wych's I is high as well. This also plays into this tactic, as the high initiative attacks further erode any potential attacks that might come back at the DE unit. If the Archon/'Net Wych combo can get based up with an MC or IC, it's quite likely there won't be a model based with the Archon to attack back.

I run the same Archon deathstar, except with a shadowfield... it works really well. Just gotta get used to model placement. For all the people who say drop the hekatrix for normal wyches, they seem to forget you'll lose 2 shardnets (Which is easily 2-4 additional attacks), and 1 attack across the board. 9 attacks is a big deal, especially if you get +1str, pain tokens (You'll start with 2 because of the IC), or reroll wounds.

I've used it to knock out Paladin deathstars, entire tyranid armies, shut down dreads, etc. It's a great unit and very versatile.

Not sure what you're local meta is, but in mine AssTerm blobs are common, so the shardnet impaler is a waste because the terminators will outlast the wyches and will likely be dropping S8 hits on the Archon.

Not to mention the unit is fethed if the raider gets downed fast, generally with overpowered melee units any half decent opponent will deny you the charge and aim to get them foot slogging while they pile on template weapons which will be instant death for the unit which means the unit will evaporate fast.

***See edited army list above

@ sleek and eyclonus: I took off aethersails and shock prow from the raiders, the razorflails from the wyches, and haywire grenades on the archon (5pts for nothing really). I also cut down the wych squad as suggested. With the extra points I upgraded to blasterborn . Also, very good point about raiders contesting objectives in the last round. Empty raiders can be golden!

You guys have raised an interesting question. Suppose I attack a mob of ork boyz with a warboss. If I set up (very carefully and legally) my shardnets and archon all around the warboss, and then his orks pile in, am I still going to suffer attacks from the boyz 2" away from the archon? Or is it only models in b2b with the archon that can attack him? Sorry just a question of assault rules...it may affect how effective this strategy can be. It is my understanding that the ork boyz within 2 inches could in fact do damage to my Archon...:( Also, how does that rule apply to independent characters? If an indepedent character is 2" away from my archon/shardnet team, can he still attack my archon? I do not believe so but just checking.

@ Saldiven: Thank you for explaining the deathstar combo better than I ever could!

@ Traceoftoxin: Bang on with why I used Bloodbrides. If I used 9 normal wyches (raider capacity including archon) I would only get one shardnet (1 per every 5 wyches). With Bloodbrides their magic number is nine and I can get 3 shardnets....woohoo

Thanks for the comments guys. I'd love to hear about any play-testing you guys have done with this unit. Perhaps my army is lacking in darklight weaponry, but hopefully the haywires will neutralize that.

btw, is there a way that you guys model/paint bloodbrides using wych models to make them clearly different from wych models?

A problem with your ork analysis is that is always a Power Klaw in the Boyz as well.
A Warboss will usually be in a Nob squad, which will always have a fair number of PKs to make it tough. Assaulting Boyz is a bit of a gamble, as they tend to tarpit WFB style in close combat, even super melee units take some time, although Khorne Berzerkers on average rolls should remove 30 boyz on the charge.

ICs can only target something they're B2B.

With Bloodbrides, use more complex tattoo/warpaint patterns and more brighter colours.

Eyclonus wrote:Not sure what you're local meta is, but in mine AssTerm blobs are common, so the shardnet impaler is a waste because the terminators will outlast the wyches and will likely be dropping S8 hits on the Archon.

Not to mention the unit is fethed if the raider gets downed fast, generally with overpowered melee units any half decent opponent will deny you the charge and aim to get them foot slogging while they pile on template weapons which will be instant death for the unit which means the unit will evaporate fast.

Yeah, that's why you don't assault 10 man Assault Terminator squads with...well, anything. If it's down to five men, I'd take the Archon/'Net Wych combo to win out pretty easily.

Unfortunately, the fragility of Raiders is a weakness with any close combat oriented DE build, especially considering the inability of just about any DE close combat unit to survive any significant amount of shooting. As I said, my Archon has never been killed in close combat since I adopted this build; he has been shot off the board, and a Shadowfiled wouldn't have made any difference in those cases.

As I said, the use of this type of unit is not simple and does require a good bit of thought and appropriate positioning. I'll absolutely stand by my success with it. the only thing that it pretty much bounced off of was Plague Marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

thunderpanda wrote:
You guys have raised an interesting question. Suppose I attack a mob of ork boyz with a warboss. If I set up (very carefully and legally) my shardnets and archon all around the warboss, and then his orks pile in, am I still going to suffer attacks from the boyz 2" away from the archon? Or is it only models in b2b with the archon that can attack him? Sorry just a question of assault rules...it may affect how effective this strategy can be. It is my understanding that the ork boyz within 2 inches could in fact do damage to my Archon...:( Also, how does that rule apply to independent characters? If an indepedent character is 2" away from my archon/shardnet team, can he still attack my archon? I do not believe so but just checking.

If the Archon is only in BtB with the Warboss, and you use careful placement of other wyches to prevent any regular Boyz from basing up with the Archon, then only the Warboss could direct attacks on the 'Boss until he died. This is possible to do, but it takes a lot of careful planning in your movement phase and while running to make sure that your Bloodbrides are spread out sufficiently that your legal assault moves allow a couple of Bloodbrides to both be in a supporting attack position and also blocking any other Boyz from getting based up with the Archon.

That being said, a full squad of Boyz is not one of the things I'd relish throwing the Archon/Bloodbride unit at, unless you had one of the better offensive drug results. It's just plain hard to do enough wounds to that many Boyz. If your shooting can get the Boyz Mob down below 20 before you assault, you might have a chance to win out.

Edit for clarity: If, however, you allow even one Boy to get based up with your Archon, then that Boy and every other Boy within 2" of him may direct attacks against the Archon, unless that supporting Boy is only based up with a Bloodbride.

Something I just remembered, this death star unit is going to throw out the delicate equation of target selection for your opponent, which is critical for DE. By making one unit so powerful your opponent will focus fire on that and will remove it instead of dividing firepower across your army and not guranteeing the loss of key units.

@ Eyclonus

To deal with the target prioritizing problem I would:

Plan A - get first turn and go for the first turn assault
Plan B - if I don't get first turn I'd keep them in reserve, then assault the turn they come on or flat out to where they are needed to get that 4+ cover save, and then assault the next turn

Now question for everybody ->
what do you guys think of throwing a PGL on the bloodbrides? suppose I could not make a first turn assault. so what I do is chill in some area terrain for cover from shooting, and my models set up in a V formation as close as I can get to his army, such that my archon is furthest back in the tip of the V, then my shardnets, and then the rest of the bloodbrides on the wings. if my opponent charges them (which he probably would):
a) he would need assault grenades
b) SURPRISE no +1 Attack for charging
c) I strike first
d) SURPRISE -2/3 attacks for your character who was trying to take down my archon
e) SURPRISE the only hit you scored on my archon was nullified by clone field

with the V formation it pretty much makes it so that only one model could charge my archon, and that one model would have to be in contact with at least two shardnets. then i could potentially pile the third one in. the opponent would obviously send in his character to that spot (unless he was well aware of these tactics) and that character would meet his doom. the wings of the V stop the opponent from walking around to charge my archon from behind. let me know what you guys think of this tactic.

Like I said earlier, it's a unit that'll work, but it does require a bit of finesse. It's far from a point-n-click unit. I've not used the PGL on mine, though I can see the attraction. I haven't been able to justify shaving points elsewhere to get one, though, in the list I run. Instead, I use the points to give my Archon a set of Ghostplate armor, just in case a few attacks do get through. That way, I can ignore the power weapon or ID hits that target him and have a save against the regular hits.

Saldiven wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

thunderpanda wrote:
You guys have raised an interesting question. Suppose I attack a mob of ork boyz with a warboss. If I set up (very carefully and legally) my shardnets and archon all around the warboss, and then his orks pile in, am I still going to suffer attacks from the boyz 2" away from the archon? Or is it only models in b2b with the archon that can attack him? Sorry just a question of assault rules...it may affect how effective this strategy can be. It is my understanding that the ork boyz within 2 inches could in fact do damage to my Archon...:( Also, how does that rule apply to independent characters? If an indepedent character is 2" away from my archon/shardnet team, can he still attack my archon? I do not believe so but just checking.

If the Archon is only in BtB with the Warboss, and you use careful placement of other wyches to prevent any regular Boyz from basing up with the Archon, then only the Warboss could direct attacks on the 'Boss until he died. This is possible to do, but it takes a lot of careful planning in your movement phase and while running to make sure that your Bloodbrides are spread out sufficiently that your legal assault moves allow a couple of Bloodbrides to both be in a supporting attack position and also blocking any other Boyz from getting based up with the Archon.

That being said, a full squad of Boyz is not one of the things I'd relish throwing the Archon/Bloodbride unit at, unless you had one of the better offensive drug results. It's just plain hard to do enough wounds to that many Boyz. If your shooting can get the Boyz Mob down below 20 before you assault, you might have a chance to win out.

Edit for clarity: If, however, you allow even one Boy to get based up with your Archon, then that Boy and every other Boy within 2" of him may direct attacks against the Archon, unless that supporting Boy is only based up with a Bloodbride.

Slightly off-topic. More of a rules clarification for myself. Since the assault is considered a multi-assault, if I get my IC b2b w/ my opponent's IC, and prevent any other model from getting into b2b with my IC, then the other models that my opponent's IC is attached to can't attack my IC? What rule supports it when I try to explain to my fellow gamers mid-game?

On topic:
I like the list and intend to give it a try, or something very similar.

Thanks,
Phish

@ThePhish:

In close combat, IC's are considered to be a separate unit from any unit they're attached to. Models may only direct attacks against units with whom they are engaged, and any model that is only in base with models from a single unit may only direct attacks against that unit, even in a multiple combat. Consequently, in the Boss & Boyz example above, no Boyz can direct attacks on the Archon unless there is at least one Boy based up with the Archon. This is pretty clearly spelled out in the Assault Phase rules, the rules for a Multiple Assault, and the rules for Independent Characters.

That's what I was thinking, just making sure.

the PGL is not needed IMO, since whenever the qyches are out of their raider and not in close combat they will be dead pretty soon.
as mentioned above: "no one assaults assault terminators", same goes for that unit with your archon, its gonna get shot to hell, at least if your facing a halfway decent general.

getting back to the clonefield issue, if you screw up a tiny bit with your positioning then it won't work, this means you can hardly ever attack opponents in cover since the d6 assault move might leave you too short to set up as you need.
the ork mob was just an example of what can screw this up, there are actually many more units who put a dent in that formation (basically anything with enough strength or power weapons and without an ic in their unit...).
if you only go for IC's as mentioned somewhere above you rill lose quite a few combats, bloodbrides got a lot of attacks, but only one agoniser, armour can really ruin your day.

i wouldn't wanna have to go through all that trouble just to save 10 points...
furthermore the shawodfield even works against shooting, i found my archon quite a few times out in the open after winning cc first roung and the bloodbride meatshield won't last too long, even with 1+ pain tokens.
but again that is just my personal oppinion.

@traceoftoxin

I've used it to knock out Paladin deathstars, entire tyranid armies, shut down dreads, etc. It's a great unit and very versatile.

i find that rather hard to believe, against dreads you get only one atttack with grenades hitting on 6s, how are 1-2 hits that might not even be pens shutting down, that cc is gonna last ages if you're not very lucky.
going into cc with dreads is just not gonna cut it, with carefull planning (moving/shooting) this should always be avoided.
and about the paladin deathstars, if they are properly build up with draigo and a scriptor they will rain on everyones parade, and bloodbrides with an archon are no exception.
psy power increasing his initiative to 10, two more to raise the units trength to 6 and you're fethed big time.
and for tyranids why would you even go into close combat? if you're not playing on a 24" times 24" board you can easily outmaneuver them and shot them to death with all those poisen shots.