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So I've been working on deciding to replace my 2 Defilers and LR with an oblit squad. Also been thinking about replacing my NMs with CSM squads to save on points and increase the wounds I'm puting out in the field. Tell me what you think.

1750 chaos w oblits (1746pts)

* HQ (340pts)

* Chaos Sorcerer
Lash of Submission , Mark of Slaanesh Terminator Armour , Twin-Linked Bolter

* Daemon Prince (200pts)
Bolt of Change , Mark of Tzeentch , Warptime Wings
* Elites (255pts)

* Chaos Terminators
2x Chainfist 3x Combi Weapon , Khorne , 3x Lightning Claw , 5x Terminator , 2x Twin-Linked Bolter

* Troops (776pts)

* Chaos Space Marines
Chaos Glory , 10x Chaos Space Marine , Missile Launcher

* Chaos Space Marines
Chaos Glory , 10x Chaos Space Marine , Lascannon

* Khorne Berzerkers (213pts)
8x Berzerker
* Chaos Rhino
Combi-Weapon

* Plague Marines (213pts)
6x Plague Marine , 2x Plasma Gun
* Chaos Rhino
Combi-Weapon

* Heavy Support (375pts)

* Chaos Defiler (150pts)
Close Combat Arm, Reaper Autocannon

* Obliterator Cult (225pts)
3x Obliterator



points costs removed, please don't list the points cost of each and every item please.
Obliged

Reds8n

get a second lash sorceror and exchange the basic chaos marines and berserkers with plaque marines (and get as many oblis as you can)

Personally, there are several things I would change about this list.

First & foremost - Ditch the Defiler. It's the only large vehicle target in your list & will be taken down w/ a quickness. Either fill your HS slots w/ them or don't take them.

I notice there is no LR & you have 5 Termies & a Sorc Lord in Termie armor (assuming he's getting attached to the Termies) so you're either DS'ing them or footslogging them. Footslogging Termies = dead Termies. They'll never get anywhere & will just get shot to crap. DS'ing is dangerous too; you DS in then you're stuck wherever you end up for a turn to get shot up some more. So, my advice would be to switch the Sorc to a Lash Prince w/ wings & get a LR to put your Termies in.

Also unsure why you have heavy weapons in your CSM squads. Points ineffective. You have no Rhino's, so they're footslogging, so they're slow. I'm guessing you want to sit on objectives & shoot your heavy's @ targets of opportunity - well, not all objectives are in deployment zones & if you're moving, you're not shooting that heavy you paid lots of points for. If you want CSM squads w/ heavy weapons, get Havocs. Same price & can have more heavys. Use CSM squads to move & capture objectives & generally take the fight to the enemy. Should definitely be in Rhino's.

Berzerkers are always solid, some of the best assault troops in the game. Put a P. Fist on the Champ.

PM's are good as well, again, put a fist on the champ.

Oblits are good as well, but one squad of 3 isn't going to make a dent in much. Just like most of our other HS options, these are best taken in multiple units.

Hope this helps

~Vryce

Well, monstrous creatures comes in pairs for target saturation.

Terminators are going to deep strike will stand there and get shot to pieces so that's not very good.

Why have CSM got heavy weapons for? They are not Havocs. Give them double special weapons and a Rhino. In fact replace them with Plague Marines.

Single Defiler will be wasted quickly, I would drop it, plus it's not that good anyway as it's crap and shooting and crap in combat.

Here's a better list:

HQ

Daemon Prince - wings, mark of tzeentch, warptime & bolt of change
Daemon Prince - wings, mark of tzeentch, warptime & bolt of change

Troops

5 x Plague Marines w/ Chaos Rhino - 2 x meltaguns
5 x Plague Marines w/ Chaos Rhino - 2 x meltaguns
5 x Plague Marines w/ Chaos Rhino - 2 x plasma guns
7 x Khorne Berzerkers w/ Chaos Rhino - Skull Champion w/ power weapon
7 x Khorne Berzerkers w/ Chaos Rhino - Skull Champion w/ power weapon

Heavy Support

2 x Obliterators
2 x Obliterators
2 x Obliterators

Check points because I haven't. You now have a better list with strong and long lasting troops which are wasting points or wargear. Two asboring fire monstrous creatures which can crack tanks shooting and in combat and some long range fire power thanks to Obliterators. Though in all honesty I'd try Havocs with missile launchers as with Obliterators you're getting maximum 2 shots per unit costing 140 points with Havocs you're getting 4 shots per unit costing 155 points.

@mercer: That list goes way over 2k. One of the reasons my list looks like it does is to save points.

I could only afford so many Rhinos. They went to the important footslogging units. I couldn't afford an LR. I didn't get one. I'd rather have 4 troops choices on the field with lots of wounds and a heavy weapon than more heavy support that can't take objectives.I only have 1 DP model. I'm not going to buy another.

This all, and Defilers are one of the best units in my army. I usually run multiple. If you say they're bad, then you clearly haven't been using them right.

@Vryce: That's good advice about the Havocs, but I need troop choices for objective games. Replacing them with more PM might get me the points for more Rhinos, but LRs are just far too expensive I'm afraid. I might try replacing the Term squad with Chosen Sm with meltas and a Rhino, but the Term squad for me has always been more about distracting my opponent and doing as much damage as possible before they go down (since the Sorc is with the Zerks anyway.) You're right though that I don't like my squads hoofing it around, but I just can't see points in a place where I'm willing to cut something. Maybe 2 5 mans instead? I won't go below 4 troop choices. In my experience its suicide.

Rusted wrote:@mercer: That list goes way over 2k. One of the reasons my list looks like it does is to save points.

I could only afford so many Rhinos. They went to the important footslogging units. I couldn't afford an LR. I didn't get one. I'd rather have 4 troops choices on the field with lots of wounds and a heavy weapon than more heavy support that can't take objectives.I only have 1 DP model. I'm not going to buy another.

This all, and Defilers are one of the best units in my army. I usually run multiple. If you say they're bad, then you clearly haven't been using them right.

One of us is failing to count and it's not me. That list comes to 1,794 which isn't just "way" over 2k but no where near it.

Whose suggested a Land Raider?

If you want lots of troops and firing only a single weapon the go for it. It's not going to work though.

If you don't want to buy another Daemon Prince then that's your choice, but the other one will die quickly.

Defilers are one of the shitest units in your army you mean? they are WS3 so not that awesome at fighting and have fleet. If you fleet you're not firing that battlecannon which is why the Defiler is high points, but it's BS3 so not that good at shooting either. Defiler doesn't know if it wants to assault or shoot and neither it does any good. I'm saying they are bad because they are bad and a lot of people will agree me. I think you're actually under false illusion as you can only use a Defiler two ways, point and shoot or assault and it sucks with both of them.

mercer wrote:Defilers are one of the shitest units in your army you mean? they are WS3 so not that awesome at fighting and have fleet. If you fleet you're not firing that battlecannon which is why the Defiler is high points, but it's BS3 so not that good at shooting either. Defiler doesn't know if it wants to assault or shoot and neither it does any good. I'm saying they are bad because they are bad and a lot of people will agree me. I think you're actually under false illusion as you can only use a Defiler two ways, point and shoot or assault and it sucks with both of them.

Yep, you're not using them right.

Obivously you been the master of the Defiler I really wouldn't take you word for it TBH, no offence btw, considering you cannot count and say things are way over 2k when they are not .

So you been the master of the Defiler how to you use them then? Sit back and shoot?