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Despite the fact that it will never be used for anything other than fun games, I created a small Thousand Sons codex after reading the book "Thousand Sons" but was unfortunately unable to really get any testing done with any proxy units. Inspired by Just Dave's Chaos codex, and the progress he has made thanks to the input of fellow Dakkanauts, I have decided that I will soon transfer my codex to text (Yes, I did it all on paper, and yes, I know it was awfully silly of me to do so). In the meantime, I was hoping to get some other people's inputs for the codex, so that as I am transferring it to text, I might be able to reflect the legion better, because I am sure I missed something.
Of course, as things go along, I will be updating this first post so that the codex will be available to look through and hopefully allow people to play test it.
So, what would people like to see in a 40K environment Loyal (kinda) Thousand Sons army?
This is what I have so far - (Click the spoiler for full details)
Spoiler:
HQ Aran Uthizar "Chief Librarian" - 275 points WSBS S T W I A LDSv 6 5 4 4 3 5 2 10 2+/3+
Infantry (Unique)
Equipment:
Artificer Armor, Heqa Staff, Master-Crafted Plasma Pistol, Symbol of the Chief Librarian, Bolter, Frag Grenades, and Krak Grenades.
Heqa Staff- A Heqa Staff is a Master-crafted Force Weapon. It also allows Aran to cast an additional psychic power per turn while not in an assault.
Symbal of the Chief Librarian- This symbol of high office allows Aran to negate one psychic power used within 24" on a roll of 3+ (Note that this ability can only be used once per turn and does not stack with any other similar wargear).
Inferno Rounds- Inferno rounds are psychically charged ammunition that change any bolt weapons used by the Thousand Sons to AP3
Special Rules:
Independent Character, Psyker, Invulnerable, Fearless, Channeled Psychie, Inferno Rounds.
Psyker- Aran is a psyker, and may cast up to two psychic powers per turn (Three with his staff). Additionally, Aran knows all Psychic powers available to the Thousand Sons, and may cast each one more than once per turn. However, he is still limited to only one shooting attack per turn.
Invulnerable- After thousands of years of training, Aran has learned to channel his own energy to heal almost any wounds he would take on the field of combat. In game terms, this is represented as a 3+ invulnerable save.
Channeled Psychie- When any member of a unit Aran is apart of, including himself, casts a psychic power, reduce the number rolled by a number equal to the number of other psykers in the unit. However, you still use the physical results to determine perils of the Warp.
Master Librarian - 140 points WSBS S T W I A LDSv 5 5 4 4 2 5 2 10 3+/4+
Infantry
Equipment:
Power Armor, Heqa Staff, Bolt Pistol, Inferno Rounds, Librarian Talisman, Iron Halo, Bolter, Frag Grenades, and Krak Grenades.
Heqa Staff- A Heqa Staff is a Master-crafted Force Weapon.
Inferno Rounds- Inferno rounds are psychically charged ammunition that change any bolt weapons used by the Thousand Sons to AP3
Librarian Talisman- Allows the Master Librarian to negate a single psychic power used within 24" on a roll of 4+ (Note that this ability can only be used once per turn and does not stack with any other similar wargear)
Special Rules:
Independent Character, Fearless, Psyker
Psyker- Master Librarians must choose any two psychic powers from the Thousand Sons psychic power list.
Options:
Master Librarians may replace the bolt pistol and/or Bolter with any of the following -
Storm Shield - 15 points
Combi weapon - 10 points
Plasma Pistol - 10 points
May cast an additional Psychic power per turn and select one additional power from the Thousand Sons psychic power list - 30
A Master Librarian may replace his Power Armor with Artificer armor for 10 points, or may instead replace his grenades, bolter, bolt pistol, and power armor for a Storm Bolter and Terminator armor at 25 points.
If you Terminator Armor was not selected, you may take a Disk Skimmer for 20 points.
Disk Skimmer- A Disk Skimmer is a jetbike, and follows all the rules for such in the BRB.
Special Unit Aspirant Librarian's do not use up a force organization slot. You may take an Aspirant Librarian for each unit selected, and attach the Aspirant Librarian to that unit. He can not leave the unit, and is counted as an upgrade character for all purposes.
Aspirant Librarian - 90 points WSBS S T W I A LDSv 4 4 4 4 1 4 2 10 3+/5+
Infantry
Equipment: Force Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Power Armour, Aspiring Talisman, Inferno Bolts, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Bolter.
Aspiring Talisman- An Aspirant Librarian can negate a single psychic power used within 24" on a d6 roll of 6. (Note that this ability can only be used once per turn and does not stack with any other similar wargear)
Inferno Rounds- Inferno rounds are psychically charged ammunition that change any bolt weapons used by the Thousand Sons to AP3
Special Rules: Psyker, Inspiration, Invulnerable
Psyker- An Aspirant Librarian is a psyker and must choose one of the following abilities from the Thousand Sons psychic power list: Kine Shield, Kinetic Lightning, Divination, Psionic Resurgance, Psionic Numerations, Psionic Strength, Psionic Enhancement.
Invulnerable- Aspirant Librarians have a 5+ invulnerable save.
Inspiration- Any unit containing an Aspirant Librarian is fearless.
Options:
Aspirant Librarians may replace the bolt pistol and/or Bolter with any of the following -
Combi Weapon - 10 points
Plasma Gun - 10 points
Plasma Pistol - 5 points
An Aspirant Librarian may replace his power armor, bolt pistol, frag grenades, krak grenades, and bolter with Terminator armor and a storm bolter for 20 points.
If Terminator armor is not taken, you may take either a Jump Pack for 10 points, or a Disc Skimmer for 15 points.
Elites Techmarine - 75 points WSBS S T W I A LDSv 4 4 4 4 2 4 2 10 3+
Infantry
Equipment: Servo-Arm, Power Armor, Bolt Pistol, Inferno Rounds, Power Weapon, Frag grenades, Krak Grenades, Bolter.
Inferno Rounds- Inferno rounds are psychically charged ammunition that change any bolt weapons used by the Thousand Sons to AP3
Servo-Arm- Servo-Arms can be used for battlefield repairs or even to crush the skulls of those that come too close. A servo-arm grants the model a single extra close combat attack, made separately at initiative 1 and strength 8. Only one attack can be made by a servo-arm per assault phase.
Special Rules: Empower the Machine Spirit, Blessing of the Omnissiah, Independent Character, Psyker.
Empower the Machine Spirit- At the beginning of your turn, you may take a psychic test. If successful, all vehicles within 12" of the Techmarine that have suffered a crew shaken or crew stunned result will have the effects removed and may operate normally.
Blessing of the Omnissiah- If a Thousand Sons vehicle has suffered an immobilised or Weapon Destroyed result then there is a chance the Techmarine can rekindle its angered war-spirit. To do this, the Techmarine must start the movement phase of your turn in contact with the damaged vehicle and not be falling back, locked in combat or gone to ground. Roll a d6, on a result of 5 or 6, either a Weapon Destroyed or Immobilised result (Owning players choice) will be repaired. Both the vehicle and the Techmarine (including any unit he has joined) must remain stationary for the entire movement phase. The repair attempt will be completed before the shooting phase begins.
Psyker- The Techmarine is considered a psyker for all purposes.
Options:
The Techmarine may upgrade his equipment to a full Servo-Harness at +35 points. The Servo-harness incorporates the following features: Artifcer armour (improving his armor save to 2+), a second servo-arm, a twin-linked plasma Pistol, and a twin linked flamer. In the shooting phase, the techmarine may fire both harness-mounted weapons or one harness-mounted weapon and one weapon of his personal weapons. A Techmarine with a servo-harness may re-roll the dice when attempting Blessing of the Omnissiah.
Special Note: Techmarines do not take up a force organization slot. You may take one techmarine for every non-dedicated transport unit vehicle selected in your army list. For the purposes of scoring, a Techmarine is counted as an elite choice.
Terminators- 40 points WSBS S T W I A LDSv 4 4 4 4 1 4 2 9 2+/5+
Infantry - Unit Size 3 - 10
Equipment: Terminator Armor, Storm bolter, Inferno Rounds, Power Fist.
Inferno Rounds- Inferno rounds are psychically charged ammunition that change any bolt weapons used by the Thousand Sons to AP3
Special Rules: Deep Strike, Psychic Homing, Psyker
Psychic Homing- If a unit of Terminators is attempting to teleport onto the field via their deepstrike rule, you may re-roll the scatter dice.
Psyker- Each Terminator is considered a Psyker for all purposes.
Options:
Each Terminator may replace his storm bolter with one of the following:
Reaper Autocannon - 25 points
Missile Launcher - 20 points
Heavy bolter - 20 points
Multi-Melta - 15 points
Heavy Flamer - 10 points
Combi weapon - 5 points
Additionally, each terminator may replace his powerfist with a chain fist for 5 points per model.
If your terminator squad numbers 5 or less, you may select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
Cataphracts- 90 points WSBS S I A Front Side Rear
4 4 5(10) 3 3 11 11 10
Walker - Unit Size 1 - 3
Equipment: 2 Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons, with built in storm bolters (Already included in profile), and Inferno Rounds.
Special Rules: Fleet of Foot
Options: Each Cataphract may replace one or both of his close combat weapons with the following (Reduce the catapract's attacks by one for each dreadnought close combat weapon removed) Each Cataract in the unit must be equipped the same way.
Lascannon - 25 points
Reaper Autocannon - 10 points
Heavy Bolter - 10
Heavy Flamer - Free
Multi-Melta - 10
Sekhmet - 40 points WSBS S T W I A LDSv 4 4 4 4 1 4 2 10 3+
Infantry - Unit Size 5 - 10
Equipment: Power Armor, Power Weapon, bolt Pistol, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Inferno Rounds, Bolter
Inferno Rounds- Inferno rounds are psychically charged ammunition that change any bolt weapons used by the Thousand Sons to AP3
Special Rules: Psyker
Psyker- Each member of the Sekhmet is a powerful psyker in their own right. As such, each one counts as a psyker for all purposes, and each must choose a psychic power from the following list:
Kine Shield, Kinetic Lightning, Psyfire, Divination, Soulcrush, Psionic Strength, Channellled Flame, Psionic Maelstrom
Options: Each member of the Sekhmet may replace their bolter with a combi weapon for 5 points, or a storm shield for 15 points.
Troops Psionic Guardsmen- 7 Points WSBS S T W I A LDSv 3 3 3 3 1 3 1 7 5+
Infantry - Unit Size 10 - 20
Equipment: Lasgun, Flak Armor
Special Rules: Psychic Communion
Psychic Communion - The unit as a whole is considered a single Psychic entity. They can channel their energies as a group instead of individually. In game terms, how this works is as follows:
Designate a single model within your unit to use a psychic power. He will then take his psychic test, and your result will be lowered by the number of models in your squad (or your leadership value, whichever is higher) using only the physical results of the dice rolls to determine perils of the warp. If perils does take place, only the designated model will take the wound. The designated model will be the only model which gains any benefit from the psychic power (Unless it clearly states that it is intended for the entire unit). You will also use the designated model for purposes of line of sight for shooting attacks. Additionally, the unit as a whole is considered a psyker for all purposes. As such, you much choose a psychic power from the following list:
Soul Crush, Psionic Resurgence, Psionic Enhancement, Psionic Maelstrom.
Options: Any two models in the unit may replace their lasguns with one of the following-
Reaper Autocannon - 20 points
Heavy Bolter and Inferno Rounds - 20 points
Missile Launcher - 15 points
Multi-Melta - 10 points
Plasma Gun - 5 points
Heavy Flamer - 5 points
Flamer - Free
Initiates- 20 points WSBS S T W I A LDSv 4 4 4 4 1 4 1 8 3+
Infantry - Unit Size 5 - 20
Equipment: Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Power Armor, Inferno Rounds
Inferno Rounds- Inferno rounds are psychically charged ammunition that change any bolt weapons used by the Thousand Sons to AP3
Special Rules: Psychic Communion
Psychic Communion - The unit as a whole is considered a single Psychic entity. They can channel their energies as a group instead of individually. In game terms, how this works is as follows:
Designate a single model within your unit to use a psychic power. He will then take his psychic test, and your result will be lowered by the number of models in your squad (or your leadership value, whichever is higher) using only the physical results of the dice rolls to determine perils of the warp. If perils does take place, only the designated model will take the wound. The designated model will be the only model which gains any benefit from the psychic power (Unless it clearly states that it is intended for the entire unit). You will also use the designated model for purposes of line of sight for shooting attacks. Additionally, the unit as a whole is considered a psyker for all purposes. As such, you much choose a psychic power from the following list:
Soul Crush, Psionic Resurgence, Psionic Enhancement, Psionic Maelstrom, Psionic Strength, Channeled Flame, Kine Shield.
Options:
A single model may replace his close combat weapon with one of the following:
Power Weapon - 10 points
Power Fist - 15 points
Force Weapon - 20 points
Any two models may exchange their bolters for one of the following:
Plasma Gun - 10 points
Combi Weapon - 5 points
Flamer - Free
Scouts- 20 points WSBS S T W I A LDSv 3 5 4 4 1 3 1 8 4+
Infantry - Unit Size 3 - 10
Equipment: Scout Armor, Inferno Sniper, Psy Emitters
Scout Armor - Grants a 4+ armor save
Inferno Sniper - A sniper rifle with the following profile
Range S AP Type
36" X* 3 Heavy 1, Sniper
* = Automatically wounds a 4+ regardless of toughness
Psy Emitters - These are devices that are carried on the scouts. They send out a small signal that will disrupt minor brainwave patterns in any foe who comes too near. Any unit equipped with Psy Emitters are treated as if they had defensive grenades
Special Rules: Infiltrate, Stealth, and Psyker
Psyker- Each member of the Scout squad is considered a psyker for all purposes. Also, at the beginning of your opponents turn, the scout squad may elect to take a psychic test under the "Psychic Communion" special rule. If the test is successful, you may re-roll all failed cover saves for that turn.
Fast Attack Disc Skimmers- 40 points WSBS S T W I A LDSv 4 4 4 4(5) 2 4 2 9 3+
Jetbike - Unit Size 1 - 5
Equipment: Close Combat Weapon, Twin Linked Bolters, Inferno Rounds, Disc Skimmers, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades
Inferno Rounds- Inferno rounds are psychically charged ammunition that change any bolt weapons used by the Thousand Sons to AP3
Disc Skimmer- A Disc Skimmer is a Jetbike as described in the BRB.
Special Rules: Furious Charge, Psyker, Hit and Run
Psyker- All Disc Skimmers are psykers for all purposes.
Options:
Any member of the unit may replace their close combat weapon with a power weapon for 10 points.
Any member of the unit may take melta bombs for 1 point per model.
Up to two Disc Skimmers may exchange their Twin Linked Bolters for Multi-Melta's for 5 points.
Disk Jet- 65 points BS Front Side Rear
4 10 10 10
Skimmer; Fast - Unit Size 1 - 3
Equipment: Two Reaper Autocannons
Options:
May replace their Reaper Autocannons with either two Plasma Cannons for 30 points or a Twin Linked Lascannon for 15 points.
Assault Marines- 20 points WSBS S T W I A LDSv 4 4 4 4 1 4 1 9 3+
Jump Infantry - Unit Size 5 - 10
Equipment: Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Inferno Rounds, Jump Pack, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades
Special Rules: Psyker
Psyker- All members of the Assault Marines squad counts as psykers for all purposes.
Options:
Up to two models in the unit may take any of the following -
Plasma Gun - 10
Flamer - 5
Any member of the unit may take Melta Bombs for 2 points.
A single member of the unit may replace it's close combat weapon with a power weapon for 10 points, or a powerfist for 15 points.
Dedicated Transports Any unit may select one of the following vehicles as a dedicated Transport. Dedicated Transports do not use up a force organization chart, but otherwise follow all rules detailed in the BRB.
Rhino- 35 points BS Front Side Rear
4 11 11 10
Vehicle (Tank)
Transport Capacity: 10
Wargear: Storm bolter, Smoke Launcher, Searchlight
Options: May take any of the following-
Dozer blade - 5 points
Additional Storm bolter - 10 points
Inferno Rounds - 10 points
Extra Armor - 15 points
Power of the Machine Spirit - 30 points
Razorback- 40 points BS Front Side Rear
4 11 11 10
Vehicle (Tank)
Transport Capacity: 6
Wargear: Twin Linked Heavy Bolter, Smoke Launchers, Searchlight
Options:
Replace Twin Linked Heavy Bolter with any one of the following-
Twin Linked Heavy Flamer - 25
Reaper Autocannon - 35
Twin Linked Lascannon - 35
Lascannon and Twin Linked Plasma Gun - 40
May Take any of the following-
Dozer blade - 5 points
Additional Storm bolter - 10 points
Inferno Rounds - 10 points
Extra Armor - 15 points
Power of the Machine Spirit - 30 points
Drop Pod- 35 points BS Front Side Rear
4 12 12 12
Vehicle (Open Topped)
Transport Capacity: 10 Infantry, 5 Terminators, or 1 Walker
Wargear: Storm Bolter
Special Rules: Inertial Guidance System, Immobile
Options: Replace the Storm Bolter with Deathwind Missile Launcher - 20 points
Heavy Support Land Raider- 220 points BS Front Side Rear
4 14 14 14
Vehicle (Tank)
Transport Capacity: 10 Infantry or 5 Terminators
Wargear: Twin Linked Heavy Bolter (Hull), Two Twin Linked Lascannons (Sponsons), Smoke Launchers, Search Light
Special Rules: Assault Vehicle
Options:
Dozer blade - 5 points
Extra Armor - 5 points
Pintle Storm bolter - 10 points
Inferno Rounds - 10 points
Power of the Machine Spirit - 30 points
Predator- 60 points BS Front Side Rear
4 13 11 10
Vehicle (Tank)
Wargear: Reaper Autocannon, Smoke Launcher, Search Light
Options: Replace the Reaper Autocannon with Twin Linked Lascannon - 45 points
May take one of the following options for sponsons-
Lascannons - 50 points
Reaper Autocannons - 35 points
Heavy Bolter - 25 points
Additionally, may take any of the following-
Dozer blade - 5 points
Extra Armor - 5 points
Pintle Storm bolter - 10 points
Inferno Rounds - 10 points
Power of the Machine Spirit - 30 points
Dreadnought- 105 WSBS I A Front Side Rear
4 4 4 2 12 12 10
Vehicle (Walker)
Wargear: Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with built in storm bolter, Reaper Autocannon, Smoke Launcher, Searchlight
Options:
You may replace the Storm Bolter with a heavy flamer for 10 points.
May replace the Reaper Autocannon for anyone of the following-
Twin Linked Lascannon - 20 Points
Plasma Cannon - 15
Multi-Melta - 10
Heavy Bolter - 5 points
May replace the Dreadnought close combat weapon with another Reaper Autocannon or Missile Launcher for free.
May choose to upgrade to Venerable for 20 points.
Devastator- 18 points WSBS S T W I A LDSv 4 4 4 4 1 4 1 9 3+
Infantry - Unit size 5 - 10
Wargear: Power Armor, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Inferno Rounds
Special Rules: Psyker
Psyker- All members of the Devastator unit are considered psykers for all purposes.
Options:
Each member in the Devastator unit may replace their bolter with one of the following-
Heavy Bolter - 5 points
Missile Launcher - 10
Plasma Cannon - 15
Any member of the unit may take melta bombs for 5 points per model
Psychic Powers Kine Shield- You may use the kine shield at the beginning of either players assault phase, or your opponents shooting phase. If your psychic test is successful the model, and unit he is apart of, may take a psychic test rather than making a normal invulnerable save roll. The psychic invulnerable test does not count against the limit of normal psychic powers used per turn, however, each model is still subject to perils of the warp per the rules in the Warhammer 40K rule book.
Kinetic Lightning- Kinetic Lightning is a psychic shooting attack with the following profile:
Range S AP Type
24" 3 2 Assault 6, Pinning
Psyfire- Psyfire is a psychic shooting attack with the following profile:
Range S AP Type
12" 9 1 Assault 1 Melta
Divination- With a successful psychic test, one friendly non-vehicle unit within 6" of the user may re-roll all to hit rolls until the beginning of your next turn
Soulcrush- Target a single model with a leadership score within 18" on a successful psychic test the model must take a leadership test on 3d6. If the leadership test is failed, the model suffers one wound for each point lost by (cover saves and invulnerable saves allowed, but armor saves are ignored).
Psionic Resurgence- This power is always active, but a psychic test must be taken at the beginning of each of your turns. The psyker and his squad have the Feel No Pain Universal Special Rule.
Psionic Enumerations- On a successful psychic test, a friendly unit within 6" may re-roll all failed saves until the beginning of your next turn. A unit may not both benefit from Kine Shield and Psionic Enumerations at the same time.
Psionic Strength- Use at the beginning of any assault phase: If the psychic test is successful, double the users strength this turn (to a max of S10) and reduce the users Initiative to 1.
Psionic Enhancement- Until the beginning of your next turn, the psyker and his squad has +1 WS +1 BS and +1 Initiative
Channeled Flame- Channeled flame is a psychic attack with the following profile
Range S AP Type
*18" 5 3 Assault 1 Template
*= Place the small end of the template within 18" of the caster and direct the template in any direction from that point
Psionic Maelstrom- Psionic Maelstrom is a psychic shooting attack with the following profile
Range S AP Type
36" 4 2 Heavy 1, Large Blast
- You may add +1 strength to the attack, if you do, increase the AP by 1 (S5 AP3 : S6 AP4 : S7 AP5 etc) to a max of S9 AP -
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2011/06/20 23:21:49
Well first off they wouldn't have access to the more "modern" weapons (Plasma Cannon, Assault Cannon etc) so your best bet for weapons might be to look at the weapons list in C:CSM.
If i remember right the different "cults" of the old Thousand Sons all had different specialisations? Maybe make each of these cults a separate Troops choice. The ones with Kine shield powers would obviously be well suited to objective holding whiel the ones with mind or fire powers woulb be better suited to assaults. That woudl avoid you having a single troops choice with LOADS of different options for their psyker powers.
Would they have had Inferno Bolts back then? Maybe make that a psyker power they can use in the shooting phase (infuse their ammo with psychic nastiness).
i cant remember if they mentioned assault (jump pack) troops in the book. Did any of them have tleportation skills? Maybe something akin to the GK units that have the personal jumper thing (Interceptors is it?).
I was actually planning on giving them mass amounts of reaper autocannons, as they mentioned the love for the "reaper" weapon at some point during the book, including a new Predator variant.
Splitting up the psychic powers might be a good idea. Right now, with the little I had play tested them, their biggest weakness was actually perils of the warp, not the enemy, so I need to do some toning. That could very well be the answer.
Another thought, would be that instead of making the cults again, would be that over their ten thousand year isolation they have taken their small number of warriors and just created one unit. Since resources are low, they will not be able to replenish their ranks quickly, even with ten thousand years to do it. The army as a whole won't have more than 500ish warriors. So I suppose I could swing that either way. More play testing might be needed.
I don't remember jump infantry in the book, but I do remember squadron walkers. I have been trying to figure out how to get that to work, and for the life of me, I am lost. Anyone have any ideas for those suckers?
Praxiss wrote:Well first off they wouldn't have access to the more "modern" weapons (Plasma Cannon, Assault Cannon etc) so your best bet for weapons might be to look at the weapons list in C:CSM.
If i remember right the different "cults" of the old Thousand Sons all had different specialisations? Maybe make each of these cults a separate Troops choice. The ones with Kine shield powers would obviously be well suited to objective holding whiel the ones with mind or fire powers woulb be better suited to assaults. That woudl avoid you having a single troops choice with LOADS of different options for their psyker powers.
Would they have had Inferno Bolts back then? Maybe make that a psyker power they can use in the shooting phase (infuse their ammo with psychic nastiness).
i cant remember if they mentioned assault (jump pack) troops in the book. Did any of them have tleportation skills? Maybe something akin to the GK units that have the personal jumper thing (Interceptors is it?).
Minor, but Plasma Cannon is not new. They are old technical relics.
Sorry, i thought this supposed to be pre-heresy loyalists. I guess that if they had remained loyal and somehwo escaped the whole Propero burns issue thent hey woudl have had to make smaller concentrated units.
if you are going for this then maybe allow units of IG sanctioned psykers? they woudln't have the means to reproduce marines so they woudl be an expensive Troops choice but you coudl have a smaller elites or maybe even nin-horde option of units of 1ks sons trained human psykers as well. call them Aspirants ro something.
Did ALL the 1k sons have powers? or was it just essentially the squad leaders? if it was all of them it coudl be confusing. but if only certain marines had the gifts then you make a Squad of 5 the standard, 4 of which have powers, then have the remainder of the squad as normal marines.
For the human ones maybe have the squad leader as a psyker and the remainder of their unit act as body guards for them durign combat.
maybe, as they are specially trained psykers, they can re-roll psykic tests to lessen the chance of Perils?
All the thousand sons had powers, which is what is becoming difficult. It's funny, I started this project before the Grey knight codex came out, and I am getting the feeling that this is going to have a very similar feel to it. Small elite units, not room for large numbers.
That might be an idea, using the humans they were with.
I have come up with a bit of back story for them, so they do make sense, and they have been able to continue on their lines, but I am loving the sound of trained humans in the codex. Might give more options as well. I'll try and have the first draft of the PDF up tonight or tomorrow so you can look with more detail, though I will probably skip out on any fluff I created for them and just get right to the rules writing.
GK idea sounds good. That way each uit of actual marines coudl have a selection of psyker powers (will be difficult to achieve this and not make them OP though).
Maybe to thin it down...go withthe idea of each unit have a specialist Psyker power (kien shield for the unit for example) but allow the Sergeant/Squad Leader to choose froma selection. Fluff it out to say that, in the absense of new recruits, the leaders have diversified their powers and helped to cross-train each other.
Example (i apologise for using the Kine shields again but it's the only example i can think of right now).
Unit of Kine marines (better name needed). On a sucessful Psyker Test at the start of their movement Phase, the entire squad gains a 3+ Cover or maybe a 4+ Invul save but also become S+P until their following turn. The Sergeant (and only him) can then choose form selection of other powers (lightning shooting attack, mind attack power in the assault phase, Inferno bolts for the squad perhaps).
If the squad is in a vehicle and casts the power then the vehicle counts as obscured.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/09 18:37:59
Cover save for the kine shield might be a brilliant plan to avoid OP issues. The kine shield I designed is of similar design to the shield used by the Dark Angels (So I take a psychic test as an invuln save). Though not limited to only one use per turn (due to wording) however, each use is vulnerable to a perils of the warp (to represent their increasing attention from warp creatures as they use their powers more and more)
I like your idea about having only the "sergeant" cast the powers, so to speak. It would allow me to use a rule I wanted to fit in, and it would limit the "You are going to use how many psychic powers this turn?" issue. I'll have to change things around a bit, but I think it'll work out quite well
It wouldn't just be the sergeant. the unit would be able to cast its "cult" power, and thenthe sergeant coudl cast his supportign power as well. In practice each unit can cast 2 powers per turn. Which isn't that OP as long as no single unit or model has a JoTWW type uber power.
The sergeants could have a variety of powers to choose from, heres soem ideas off the top of my head:
Defensive - Obscure Senses (counts as defensive grenades)
Offensive - (somethgin similar to Doombolt)
Friednly Buff - (something similar to WarpTime or an iniative boost)
Enemy De-Buff - Force some kind of -Ld modifier or lower their intitatvie on the charge. maybe cause dangerous terain teset when chargign the sergeants unit.
Over the hills and far away, or am right behind you?
Looking good but only 10 points for AP3 bolters.. that would shred squads in seconds, i'd say more points for it or turn it into a power they use on the squad.
They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself - Mal.
First off: Thank you for commenting! I appreciate the feedback I was starting to get a little discouraged after putting in the work to write it all up and had no on replies on it.
Second: Yeah, I suppose you are right. On the units that could upgrade to the inferno rounds, I tried to limit their bolter weapon options, forcing you to choose between anti-infantry and anti tank. I like the feel of forcing you to choose the roll. And it's made even more important given the lack of infantry held melta weapons.
So perhaps, only a 5 point increase to keep the feel?
Amanax wrote:First off: Thank you for commenting! I appreciate the feedback I was starting to get a little discouraged after putting in the work to write it all up and had no on replies on it.
I know that feeling Amanax; my CSM Codex has the lowest views-to-post ratio in this forum IIRC. Try to remind me to give you some feedback on this and/or your Luna Wolves...
Automatically Appended Next Post: One question regarding this, mind: Is this supposed to be pre-heresy TS, or post-heresy yet loyal(!) TS?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/13 09:11:29
"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of." - Roboute Guilliman
"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now." - Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
Over the hills and far away, or am right behind you?
Just Dave wrote:
One question regarding this, mind: Is this supposed to be pre-heresy TS, or post-heresy yet loyal(!) TS?
This is the main point that need to be choose before anything can be said or decided.
Amanax wrote:First off: Thank you for commenting! I appreciate the feedback I was starting to get a little discouraged after putting in the work to write it all up and had no on replies on it.
Second: Yeah, I suppose you are right. On the units that could upgrade to the inferno rounds, I tried to limit their bolter weapon options, forcing you to choose between anti-infantry and anti tank. I like the feel of forcing you to choose the roll. And it's made even more important given the lack of infantry held melta weapons.
So perhaps, only a 5 point increase to keep the feel?
and no problem ideas need to be encouraged i do like how they need to be forced but i just think that could be very powerful for normal troops... unless you limit the amount in the squad so its less bolters in the squad
They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself - Mal.
The basic idea is post heresy loyal. I'm still working through the kinks in the fluff to actually make it work. The basic idea is that they, and they're guard unit, were sent away as a further attempt to weaken Prospero before the Space Wolves attacked. As a final attempt to secure his legacy, Magnus used some of the power he gained by giving into chaos to put up a warp storm around the sector where these marines had been sent, completely isolating them from the Heresy.
Being isolated, the marines eventually decided to continue the crusade as best as they could, being only a thousand strong themselves (not counting the guardsmen) and moved through the sector and eventually going so far as to find a planet to use where the inhabitants bodies would accept the geneseed.
The warpstorm has finally ended, and the sector has long since been compliant. These Thousand Sons don't know about the Heresy, and still feel they are loyal to the Emperor.
Don't ask about the Flesh Change, I haven't figured it out yet >_< If you have any suggestions on that matter, or any other part of the fluff, I would be happy to hear it!
@dullblade - I do agree. Hence the increased cost value per model compared to other codices. 20 points for a basic marine is a bit to pay, and adds up quick. But, do you think it should be more to further limit them? Truly make them Grey Knight-esk where you won't usually field more than 20 models in a 2000 points game?
In the original draft I did, they cost 35 points a piece (The cheapest infantry model), and came with power weapons. I liked the feel of them that way, with the exception of it feeling like I was encouraging melee a little too much. I feel there should be a very strong connection to shooting for these guys, and I should shy away from melee (Hence the main HQ unit only having 2 base attacks). Also, when they were more expensive, it was impossible to field them at lower points. I tried running a 500 points game. I had, if I recall, 11 infantry on the field and no tanks! It was terrible. That was before the addition of the "guard" representations, however, so those could very well have fixed that problem.
Over the hills and far away, or am right behind you?
hmmmm yeh i get what your saying, if your pusshing them into a ranged army then how about just a variation on the bolter, as they would have the older version, how about they disregard these for a xenos counterpart? or pertinently warp aided? Do they have any techmarines?
They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself - Mal.
They did pre-heresy so I figured if they were going so far to preserve themselves by creating new marines, than they would have their techmarine train new techmarines to preserve his knowledge.
Over the hills and far away, or am right behind you?
Makes sense, but wouldn't new marine be the apothecaries job? aso for the guard regiment, y not have the templar neophytes feel? but full squads of them, warp enhanced guys? rather than superhuman?
They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself - Mal.
Just thought Id point out a potential rules problem.
Soulcrush- Target a single model with a leadership score within 18" on a successful psychic test the model must take a leadership test on 3d6. If the leadership test is failed, the model suffers one wound for each point lost by (cover saves and invulnerable saves allowed, but armor saves are ignored).
Dreadnoughts are single models with leadership values and don't/can't take a "wound". Might want to add in some language to describe that scenario.
Grey Knights -2500
D'haran First File - 2500
D'haran Great Company - 1500
reds8n wrote:
GW's "marketing strategies" ( use of term may not conform to accepted definition) or WTFedness thereof is pretty much a given now.
dullblade35 wrote:really like that idea abit warlocky but more marine based and i know what you mean with the neophytes but just trying to think of a worse marine
Sweet. I really wanted to incorporate a "sergeant" that felt like something more. How do you feel about the overall point cost of the units?
Zonder wrote:Just thought Id point out a potential rules problem.
Soulcrush- Target a single model with a leadership score within 18" on a successful psychic test the model must take a leadership test on 3d6. If the leadership test is failed, the model suffers one wound for each point lost by (cover saves and invulnerable saves allowed, but armor saves are ignored).
Dreadnoughts are single models with leadership values and don't/can't take a "wound". Might want to add in some language to describe that scenario.
Which book lists dreadnoughts (or any walker) as having leadership values? If you could locate that, I might better be able to adjust things, as my Templar codex, Chaos marines, or space wolves codex lists dreadnoughts as having leadership. Perhaps you are thinking of another unit?
Whats to stop someone taking 30 ap3 heavy bolters for just 690 points. broken much! 90 ap 3 shots that on average 60 will hit and 40 will wound on the basic space marine! so in one turn of shooting i will kill 720+ points worth of space marine yum!
2500 points of Iron Hands!
5000 points of Skaven
2000 points of Daemons of Chaos
Honestly, I'm not sure I like the sounds of it being post-heresy, so I'll just comment on the rules tbh (later! ).
James100 wrote:Whats to stop someone taking 30 ap3 heavy bolters for just 690 points. broken much! 90 ap 3 shots that on average 60 will hit and 40 will wound on the basic space marine! so in one turn of shooting i will kill 720+ points worth of space marine yum!
The need for anti-tank, variety and that it's no more effective against non-MeQ enemies? And Cover...
"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of." - Roboute Guilliman
"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now." - Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
James100 wrote:Whats to stop someone taking 30 ap3 heavy bolters for just 690 points. broken much! 90 ap 3 shots that on average 60 will hit and 40 will wound on the basic space marine! so in one turn of shooting i will kill 720+ points worth of space marine yum!
Just Dave wrote:Honestly, I'm not sure I like the sounds of it being post-heresy, so I'll just comment on the rules tbh (later! ).
James100 wrote:Whats to stop someone taking 30 ap3 heavy bolters for just 690 points. broken much! 90 ap 3 shots that on average 60 will hit and 40 will wound on the basic space marine! so in one turn of shooting i will kill 720+ points worth of space marine yum!
The need for anti-tank, variety and that it's no more effective against non-MeQ enemies? And Cover...
Dave answered the question exactly as it stands. I purposefully made the list so you had the option to tear through space marine infantry. However, choosing to do that means you have next to 0 anti tank. given the currant meta-game, taking those anti-infantry heavy bolters would result in you being unable to damage most of the armies out there. What good is an anti infantry gun with no infantry to shoot at?
However, if enough people feel that the choice between anti infantry and anti tank is not strong enough of a balancing factor, I will change the points around to better balance things.
@Dave - Why no love for the post heresy thousand sons? We have several already available options in the story for a potential loyal chapter of them. Is it just personal preference? The only reason I didn't make this a pre-heresy codex was because I felt it would almost be too limited by the different sects. You'd either have way too many one trick pony choices, or a single unit choice that chose to specialize in a variety of things. Either way, not much fun to build a codex around. So I went with this.
Zonder wrote:Just thought Id point out a potential rules problem.
Soulcrush- Target a single model with a leadership score within 18" on a successful psychic test the model must take a leadership test on 3d6. If the leadership test is failed, the model suffers one wound for each point lost by (cover saves and invulnerable saves allowed, but armor saves are ignored).
Dreadnoughts are single models with leadership values and don't/can't take a "wound". Might want to add in some language to describe that scenario.
Surely that explains itself in that Dreadnought can't take wounds?
----
Honestly, it's just I don't see the justification behind a post-heresy TS Codex; I don't really know of much/any fluff to support it, nor how they would maintain themselves without either resorting to Chaos or joining the Imperium; in which case they'd be a Chapter (not post-HHTS). So I guess in they'd likely either be Codex: Blood Ravens or CSM's?
I admit, it's also a personal thing.
Regarding the rules, I've only read a little bit so far (strapped for time atm and many things on the go; which would you rather I commented on, this or the Luna Wolves thing?), however the Chief Libby seems pretty balanced so far, if possibly over-costed. You'd need to clarify whether his staff allows him to cast the same power twice and how many powers that makes in total, just for ease at least?
I also think you REALLY need to clarify how things work, such as having squads of psykers and for multiple castings. Such as GK Brotherhood of psykers.
Regarding the powers, which were the 2nd thing I looked at (considering how important they are), I believe some will need some changing to ensure they're all of similar quality and therefore get taken too (rather than only a couple). However, overall I really like it; some of them are really characterful and original.
- Kine Shield - I'd clarify what happens if the test is passed and also state that it's an invulnerable save in that it can always be taken, as otherwise the statement of invulnerable save is kind of confusing. Is a good rule otherwise however.
- Lightning - I believe this is the weakest power, I'd recommend either increasing the strength and lowing the AP and/or increasing the RoF. Compare it to the rarely-taken smite; pinning is limited use in 5th AFAIK, so that's not the most amazing addition IMHO.
- Psyflame is arguably balanced, arguably should be AP2 or Str8 too however; how safe you want to play it is up to you.
- Divination - Good, but I'd recommend making it either exclusive to the shooting phase or assault phase; think like Eldar's Guide. Can it also affect vehicles?
- Soulcrush is good. I'd recommend it ignores cover saves however, arguably should ignore invulnerables too. Like Psyflame, how safe you want to play it is up to you. I'd reduce it's effects against Monstrous Creatures however, such as they take it on 2D6 or +1/2Ld or something?
- You may aswell just make it so Resurgence is taken at the beginning of each turn? Otherwise I really like this rule.
- I'd try to clarify if enumerations effects all saves; if so it's arguably too good, but then again it's basically fortune. Also need to clarify how it relates to Kine Shield?
- I'd argue Psionic Strength to be too good; particularly if whole units can take it; think Hammerhand or +2 strength or something?
- Enhancement's good; should possibly not affect BS however?
- Flame is good.
- Maelstrom's good; you should clarify that to be Str9+ it should be AP- or max out at Str8.
So far, that and the main guy is all I've read; really like the Psychic Powers; great range and variety and should serve it well at the Codices heart. Good Luck man, hope that helps!
"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of." - Roboute Guilliman
"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now." - Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
Fair enough Dave. Fair enough. We'll just stick to the rules creation for now then
The reason I listed the Chief Librarian's cost as high as I did, was because he has a force weapon, three psychic powers per turn, eternal warrior, and a 3++. I felt those are what justified the cost, however, I could just be completely crazy, and over thinking it. I'm sure points will be adjusted more than once before I feel that I am done with this codex.
One of the reasons I posted the dex here. I have a hard time phrasing things at times. What makes sense to me will usually look like absolute giberish to everyone else.I'll try to reword a few things real quick to see if I can clarify, if not I would love some suggestions (As intent is easily obtainable at this point in time) to word things better.
I've reworded "Psychic Communion" to make things a little easier, and clarified Aran's psychic powers. I've also gone through and tweaked some of the powers.
I would like to point out that you caught me on a few things, and the comparisons I was making to other codices
Psyflame is the way it is to give some kind of reliable melta weapon. The codex as a whole has very little melta options.
Divination and Psychic Enumerations were rip offs of certain psychic powers. As such, you read them correctly. Divination will allow you to roll all to hits, both CC and ranged (Just like guide) and Enumerations is a copy of Fortune, meaning all saves. I will clarify them a bit though, as I forgot to mention Kine Shield (That would be a little OTT) and Divination with vehicles.
I wanted Soul Crush to be a bit like the Eldar mindwar. A bit of a risky move, but allowing you to attempt to pop sergeants and other special characters. Most monstrous creatures should be alright overall (unless they roll poorly of course) but if it becomes an issue, I might need to rework the ability.
The only reason I worded Resurgence the way I did, was to prevent people from using a psychic hood, or other similar psychic defense items to counter it.
Helps a ton, all things were considered, a bunch of tweaking. I hope you like the rest of the codex as much when you get around to reading it. Thank you for taking the time to comment on it as much as you did ^^
Amanax wrote:Fair enough Dave. Fair enough. We'll just stick to the rules creation for now then
The reason I listed the Chief Librarian's cost as high as I did, was because he has a force weapon, three psychic powers per turn, eternal warrior, and a 3++. I felt those are what justified the cost, however, I could just be completely crazy, and over thinking it. I'm sure points will be adjusted more than once before I feel that I am done with this codex.
That's fair enough man; completely custom characters can be difficult to judge! He seems really nice considering that then!
I would recommend 2 things however: 1) maybe not refer to him as Chief Librarian because that's Ahriman, but that may be going into the fluff side of things!
2) I'd recommend making him 4++ rather than 3++, as the latter makes him very powerful with eternal warrior. Also, if he's then 4+ I'd recommend having the 4++ available against PotW attacks to help protect him as this could otherwise cripple him?
One of the reasons I posted the dex here. I have a hard time phrasing things at times. What makes sense to me will usually look like absolute giberish to everyone else.I'll try to reword a few things real quick to see if I can clarify, if not I would love some suggestions (As intent is easily obtainable at this point in time) to word things better.
I know what you mean; I've found with some of the questions people ask and things that it's better to be clear than rely on common sense!
Psyflame is the way it is to give some kind of reliable melta weapon. The codex as a whole has very little melta options.
Fair enough; I haven't really read enough of the rest to judge this in that case! I can't imagine it's too reliable either thanks to perils and nullification though!
Divination and Psychic Enumerations were rip offs of certain psychic powers. As such, you read them correctly. Divination will allow you to roll all to hits, both CC and ranged (Just like guide) and Enumerations is a copy of Fortune, meaning all saves. I will clarify them a bit though, as I forgot to mention Kine Shield (That would be a little OTT) and Divination with vehicles.
That all sounds good. They may be rip-offs, but they are really nice (not OP) powers in most cases.
The only reason I worded Resurgence the way I did, was to prevent people from using a psychic hood, or other similar psychic defense items to counter it.
I'm unsure why they should be unable to nullify it to be honest?
Helps a ton, all things were considered, a bunch of tweaking. I hope you like the rest of the codex as much when you get around to reading it. Thank you for taking the time to comment on it as much as you did ^^
It's OK buddy, I'll comment when I have the time but I can't guarantee how regularly that would be! Would you rather I comment on this or your Luna Wolves?
---
Bit of other feedback:
Disk Jets seem well balanced. I'd recommend some other wargear options for them however. Liking the disc theme throughout too!
I wouldn't say a Reaper Autocannon or Lascannon are as good (price-wise); the reaper has shorter range, strength, AP - this is a problem for the Razorback at least.
You ideally need to list the Cataphracts strength btw. However I love this unit (and have always liked the name Cataphract!); they sem pretty balanced. I'd recommend giving him Fleet at least and clarifying if the DCCW's include Bolters? I'd also say Multi-meltas are worth more than Heavy Bolters rather than the other way round, whilst a Lascannon is more deserving of 20-25pts. Otherwise, I love this unit.
Finally, I'd recommend limiting how many special weapons terminators can take; the whole squad being able to take multimelta's or missile launchers is far too powerful IMHO.
Please don't mistake brevity for rudeness man; hope that helps!
"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of." - Roboute Guilliman
"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now." - Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
I would rather this get worked out, as my wolves are still a long term project.
I changed Aran around, I dropped him down to 275 points instead of 295, this came at the cost of his eternal warrior status. I want to keep the 3++ as with the currant PotW rules, the 3++ is a pretty effective means of avoiding perils, but still allowing it to be something that needs to be considered. I don't want you throwing powers around without thinking of a possible consequence!
As for Resurgence, as I worded it, I figured they would be unable to nullify it, as most abilities to do so are used when the power is cast. As there is no "cast" there is no chance to use your psychic hood, or other such wargear.
I placed Lascannons and Reapers priced the same because although the Lascannon is S9 over S7 and AP2 over AP4, it's only a single shot per turn and Reaper Autocannons are twin linked. However, I had forgotten about the shorter range, so I might change the point cost to a 5 point difference.
Right! Strength. I've gone through and updated their profile. I placed Heavy Bolters above the Meltas due to inferno rounds, however, I think with my overall theme of melta being hard to get for this army, that I should probably change that around.
I have changed the cost of the weapons for the Terminators. I wanted them to be a shooting platform, as in the book A Thousand Sons, the terminators appeared to be more for this purpose than close combat for their army. With the increased points, (about five points per model) yes you could very well outfit them to be a very powerful shooting unit, though an expensive one.
No worries Dave. I don't take any offense to any suggestions, but rather encourage all feedback, both negative and positive.
What do you think of these changes? Also, have you checked over the scouts from the troops choice? I have not seen people take scouts really at all, so I attempted to make them better (with a bit of a price increase) to make them more competitive.
(Iron Warriors) 
W:1 L:1 D:1
I was starting to get a little discouraged after putting in the work to write it all up and had no on replies on it.
i do like how they need to be forced but i just think that could be very powerful for normal troops... unless you limit the amount in the squad so its less bolters in the squad 
Grey Knights -2500
D'haran First File - 2500
D'haran Great Company - 1500
