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Hello everyone, I wanted to throw up this list before I prioritized the purchase of a second devilfish. It's something I plan to do eventually, but I wanted to make sure I have a list that can put it to use. It's for 1000 points and is my first attempt at a fully mech army (I usually run hybrid)

HQ

Fireknife El, TL MP, PR, HW MT - 93 points

I chose to TL the missiles instead of TA because I wanted to nudge the accuracy towards the missiles a bit

Elites

Fireknife MP, PR, MT - 62 points
Fireknife MP, PR, MT - 62 points

Fast Attack
8x vespids - 134 points

Troops
8x Carbines, EMP grenades - 104 points
Devilfish - GD's, DP - 85 points

8x Carbines, EMP grenades - 104 points
Devilfish - GD's, DP - 85 points

Heavy Support
Ionhead, BC's, MT, TL, DP - 135
Ionhead, BC's, MT, TL, DP - 135

999 Points

The general strategy of the list is to take the fight to the enemy and shoot them down from 12-18". The four vehicles would advance in such a way to provide cover to the suits and vespids. I think this would do well vs. light vehicles and MEQ lists and struggle vs. hordes. I don't expect to see enough AV 14 to punish me, and I can deal with one land raider or one monolith if I have to.

I prefer to use single suit squads to keep their footprint small, I own a helios and any extra suits would have to be purchased.

Some answers to obvious questions.

Why carbines? Why EMP grenades?

I like carbines in devilfish because it matches the range of the fish's weapons and it keeps the transport just a smidge outside the 12" range where the disruption pod stops working.
The EMP grenades are insurance against all-around AV 14 like monolith's and land raiders, I don't plan to go out of my way to find softer targets for the EMP's.

I added the vespids for a deep strike threat and a dedicated MEQ killer. A pair of ion's may make them redundant, but it gives some freedom to shoot at other things. For the points I could make the crisis suits into pair's, get 4 stealths, or a single infiltrating kroot squad. I do not own Pirahna's and find them overpriced for what they do, so I'm not terribly interested in getting them.

Andy06r wrote:The general strategy of the list is to take the fight to the enemy and shoot them down from 12-18".

Your general strategy sounds like a really good way to lose. Tau NEVER want to be within 12-18" unless it's involuntarily.

Here's what you've done right in your list:
Your Shas'el.
The Crisis Suits, except for the fact that you don't have enough of them. Fireknife and Deathrain are both great combinations for your suits, depending on how many points you're willing to spend or what else you want in the list.

Here's what you've done wrong:
The Vespids. I really shouldn't even have to explain this - they're an absolutely horrible unit. Your Vespids kill an average of 1 MEQ in cover per turn, then die straight away due to their terrible saves and low LD. You can take almost three additional Crisus Suits for the points you're paying for the Vespids; guess which is actually going to be useful?
The Fire Warriors. EMP grenades actually make your army weaker. If your fire warriors ever get assaulted you want them die die in a single assault phase, as that gives you the chance to shoot whatever assaulted them next turn. What you don't want is for them to stay safe in combat during your next turn.
The Ionheads. Ion cannons are a waste on the Hammerhead, upgrade it to a Railgun instead.

Here's what I would do to make your list a bit more streamlined and competitive:

Shas'el, TL-Missile Pod, Flamer, HW Drone Controller, 2 Gun Drones - 92

Crisis Suits (2), TL-Missile Pod, Flamer - 94
Crisis Suits (2), TL-Missile Pod, Flamer - 94
Crisis Suits (1), TL-Missile Pod, Flamer - 47

Fire Warriors (6), Devilfish with Disruption Pod - 145
Fire Warriors (6), Devilfish with Disruption Pod - 145
Kroot (10) - 70

Hammerhead, Railgun, Burst Cannon, Disruption Pod - 155
Hammerhead, Railgun, Burst Cannon, Disruption Pod - 155

The Hammerheads stick in the corners showing their AV13 side, whilst the suits set up behind the Kroot in cover. Shas'el joins the single suit to form a third unit of 2. The Kroot and the Fire Warriors are used as speed bumps to keep your suits safe from assault. The devilfish do the same thing but are used to block tanks.

Unbeliever, you had some things wrong in your assessment, mainly the little section on EMP grenades. They do not make your fire warriors weaker - the Photon Grenades are the ones that make your fire warriors worse.

@OP

Your list looks fairly strong except for your vespids.

Vespids look good on paper, but they really are terrible. They are very weak (as much as eldar) and they have a short range gun. They are also geared to assault, but they are pitiful at that as well.

I tried them out 1 game. I zoomed forward, shot into a unit of Necron Warriors, and then assaulted them. All my vespids died, 0 necrons died...

Anyways, the Ionheads give you enough AP3 weaponry for 1000 pts.

I see you reasoning for carbines, but I would really ask you to try to use pulse rifles. Carbines have their uses, but I think mech is the domain of the pulse rifle.

First off, there are a load of assumptions you are making for using the carbines. The unit you are shooting at doesn't necessarily have AT weaponry. Carbines do match the range of the d-fish, but who cares? Rapid fire is so much more useful. How hard is it to get 6" closer to the enemy with a skimmer so that you can rapid fire?

Really, in my experience pulse rifles are by far more useful in mech Tau.

I would suggest that with the spare points from trashing the vespids that you get SMS, a TA, and MTs for both your D-fish.

There is a strong lack of AT firepower in this list. EMP grenades (however fun) are not a dependable tank-killer. I would try to get in at least 2 broadsides (or hammerheads). If you remove both ion-heads and some crisis suits, you will be able to fit in 2 hammerheads.


Here is what I usually run at 1000 pts. JIC you want to see another way it could be done:

Crisis Battlesuit Commander (Shas'el)
-Plasma Rifle
-TL Missile Pod
-HW Multi-Tracker
-Stimulant Injector
Points - 103

Fire Warrior Team (11)
Points - 110

Fire Warrior Team (11)
Points - 110

Pathfinder Team (4x)
Devilfish (SMS/MT/TA/DP)
Points - 168

Pathfinder Team (4x)
Devilfish (SMS/MT/TA/DP)
Points - 168

Hammerhead Gunship
-Railgun
-Burst Cannons
-Multi Tracker
-Target Lock
-Disruption Pods
Points - 170

Hammerhead Gunship
-Railgun
-Burst Cannons
-Multi Tracker
-Target Lock
-Disruption Pods
Points - 170

Total Points - 999

Andy,
As bad as Vespid are, if you're going to try 'em anyway, they need the Strain Leader. Some Math Hammer genius figured that a crew of bugs needed to be 9 in size to eventually beat a Tactical SM unit, with MarkerLight assisted Shooting, and the Assault.

Still, points are better spent on Suits, as The Bringer stated.

Thanks for the comments.

I actually use vespids fairly often and I've had mixed results, but I totally understand that they might not be appropriate for this list (I generally run alien themed hybrid lists that have 3 tau squads, 2 kroot squads, and a vespid squad with suits and tanks. It's definitely not a a power list but it looks good on the table and is amusing to play).

I already own three broadsides and I could drop the vespids and reduce the troop units to 7 models. It would free up 160 points and I could buy two broadsides with either TA or ASS (still haven't made up my mind on which I like better). I guess I'd have to play some games and see how often the lack of AT actually gets me in trouble.

Lots of good comments, thanks.

If you want amusing lists... just ask. I have quite a few that are good for lols (though victory is not likely.)

Are you even allowed a squad with all carbines?

I thought you could only take 1 carbine for every 2 FW's in the squad?

The 3rd edition codex limited you to half carbines. The 4th edition book lets you do full squads. Rifle squads are still the standard choices but every now and then a good use for them shows up. Just remember that if you take a full squad of carbines and a 'UI that gun drones wargear are more accurate for the same point cost.

Bringer: Are you sure warfish is good? atleast in this small game they are overpriced and you lose drones.
And IMO pathfinders are only good in larger games, but I think that's just my opinion. Your list needs more suits, So I would drop pathfinders and take normal devilfish and take more suits.

-unforgiven-

the unforgiven wrote:Bringer: Are you sure warfish is good? atleast in this small game they are overpriced and you lose drones.

Losing the Drones is a good thing, one less KP for your opponent (right? I forget what the FAQ said about 'em). Anyway, Move Combat speed and shoot 7 dice. Pricey for a bit of shooting, but it's a resilient transport too.

the unforgiven wrote:And IMO pathfinders are only good in larger games, but I think that's just my opinion. Your list needs more suits, So I would drop pathfinders and take normal devilfish and take more suits. -unforgiven-

This is a good point, as a lot of us comment that PFs are best in lists of 1250 or larger.

In the March FAQ drones are no longer considered as passengers and as a result go down with the ship and can be blown up by weapon destroyed (but still do not benefit from markerlights). They also are only permitted to fire if the vehicle can fire at least one weapon, so if you have a multitracker and go 12" you can still shoot both your turret and the gun drones. They only give up a killpoint if you choose to detach them.

This actually made gun drones on vehicles better in 5th, because you can just leave the drone attached and have it go down with the ship to protect the KP. It is best to now think of them as a pair of pintle-mounted twin linked carbines, with the option to detach and turn into a gun drone squadron.