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Made in ca
Deadly Dark Eldar Warrior




Ontario

Let me start by saying that this is an idea only, tested in a few games. It may be completely tactically absurd, and if it is, I ask you to make your opinion known nicely.

Normally, the Dark Eldar are focussed on charging the enemy and getting into close combat ASAP, and not relenting the attack until everything is destroyed.

Using Night Shields, the Dark Eldar can gain a competitive advantage against most armies with regard to firepower. The dark lances and splinter cannons out-range most guns in the 40k universe when combined with night shields.

For those who might find it useful (as I do) to know which guns out-range the DE guns, I have compiled a list (see below). I do not have the information for the newer codicies, but the bulk of it is there.

The application to this information is as follows: Suppose you are DE, playing against Tau. If you get first turn and eliminate all the guns that out-range dark lances, you force the tau to advance closer to you in order to get some decent shots or risk being shot like sitting ducks next turn. In fact, to my knowledge, the Tau only have 3 guns that out-range the dark eldar when night shields are used. They are the Ion Cannon, the Kroot Gun and the Railgun. What more could the Dark eldar want than Tau advancing into less than 30 inch range?

Furthermore, why charge an army that you out-range? If you sit at the 36 inch range against tyranids, you can just chill and shoot them to pieces for an entire turn before they can even get into any sort of limited shooting range against you. Perhaps even back up during your move phase! I know this is UN-HEARD OF for Dark eldar, but it works. You let them charge a little more, then advance 6 inches with your warrior venoms/raiders and rapid-fire them to oblivion, followed by a 21-26 inch counter-attacking charge from hiding by those fearsome wyches to mop everything up. Tested and effective strategy.

Better yet, why not "force" an army that is not great at CC to advance towards you, like eldar for example? You only need to worry about missiles, prism cannons, pulse lasers and reaper launchers. I don't think I've ever seen reapers used in a competitive list either. Take out these guns first, and then you can shoot them til your heart is content. Then once they're into the 21-26 inch range to get their shots off, they are sitting ducks for your wyches to annihilate. The key here is to hide your wych raiders up front behind BLOS terrain while keeping your shooty units (ravagers + warrior venoms/raiders etc) retreating slowly to stay in the 36 inch range of the enemy. once they get in the 24 inch range of the wyches, the t3 eldar are toast. This strategy of patience and careful eye-balling of distances can save you the hassle of
a) requiring flickerfields on your paper airplanes
b) losing your raiders and half your assault squads as they charge into the guns of the enemy to get into assault. let them come to you and then...'counter-attack.'

Also consider hiding a splinter rack raider up front too to pop out and rapid fire the advancing enemy. That is honestly my favourite thing.

Problems with this strategy arise when facing fast armies, deep-striking armies, or the dreaded SW missile spam.

Space Marines:
Autocannon
Conversion Beamer
Lascannon
Frag, Krak, Cyclone and Typhoon Missiles
Thunderfire Cannon

Imperial Guard:
Autocannon
Battle Cannon
Earthshaker
Lascannon
Mortar
Frag and Krak Missiles

Chaos Space Marines:
Autocannon
Battle Cannon
Blastmaster
Havoc Launcher
Lascannon
Frag and Krak Missiles

Eldar:
Krak and Plasma Missiles
Prism Cannon
Pulse Laser
Reaper Launcher

Orks:
Deffgun
Lobba
Shokk Attack Gun

Tau:
Ion Cannon
Kroot Gun
Railgun

Necrons...I believe it is only monoliths?

Tyranids and Chaos Daemons are all out-ranged.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/06/12 21:06:18


1850pts
W-L-D: 9-3-1 
   
Made in us
Sinewy Scourge






Let me start by saying that this is an idea only, tested in a few games. It may be completely tactically absurd, and if it is, I ask you to make your opinion known nicely.

Normally, the Dark Eldar are focussed on charging the enemy and getting into close combat ASAP, and not relenting the attack until everything is destroyed.


I think this statement is incredibly false. There are Dark Eldar lists that rely on close combat, however the new dex is just as amazing at shooting. I would say that my list is very shooting based and I know many DE lists that are. Nothing absurd about it.

Using Night Shields, the Dark Eldar can gain a competitive advantage against most armies with regard to firepower. The dark lances and splinter cannons out-range most guns in the 40k universe when combined with night shields.


Yes, you CAN. However it's not as easy as that seems.

For those who might find it useful (as I do) to know which guns out-range the DE guns, I have compiled a list (see below). I do not have the information for the newer codicies, but the bulk of it is there.

The application to this information is as follows: Suppose you are DE, playing against Tau. If you get first turn and eliminate all the guns that out-range dark lances, you force the tau to advance closer to you in order to get some decent shots or risk being shot like sitting ducks next turn. In fact, to my knowledge, the Tau only have 3 guns that out-range the dark eldar when night shields are used. They are the Ion Cannon, the Kroot Gun and the Railgun. What more could the Dark eldar want than Tau advancing into less than 30 inch range?


The problem is that much of the stuff that can out range the Night Shield is the same stuff that is heavily spammed. Missile Pods are found en masse from Tau Suits. It's not so easy to simply "kill all Broadsides/Railguns" either. 3 squads of 3 with drones in cover won't die that fast. Not only that, but you also WANT to assault Tau.

Furthermore, why charge an army that you out-range? If you sit at the 36 inch range against tyranids, you can just chill and shoot them to pieces for an entire turn before they can even get into any sort of limited shooting range against you. Perhaps even back up during your move phase! I know this is UN-HEARD OF for Dark eldar, but it works. You let them charge a little more, then advance 6 inches with your warrior venoms/raiders and rapid-fire them to oblivion, followed by a 21-26 inch counter-attacking charge from hiding by those fearsome wyches to mop everything up. Tested and effective strategy.


Nids are easy to kill with a good DE force. The list has a rough time with them. Again, shooting DE are not "UN-HEARD OF". Even the old codex was shooting based.

Better yet, why not "force" an army that is not great at CC to advance towards you, like eldar for example? You only need to worry about missiles, prism cannons, pulse lasers and reaper launchers. I don't think I've ever seen reapers used in a competitive list either. Take out these guns first, and then you can shoot them til your heart is content. Then once they're into the 21-26 inch range to get their shots off, they are sitting ducks for your wyches to annihilate. The key here is to hide your wych raiders up front behind BLOS terrain while keeping your shooty units (ravagers + warrior venoms/raiders etc) retreating slowly to stay in the 36 inch range of the enemy. once they get in the 24 inch range of the wyches, the t3 eldar are toast. This strategy of patience and careful eye-balling of distances can save you the hassle of


You do know that Wave Serpents are tough to kill, even with lots of st 8 right? It's easy to say "just kill the Serpents with missiles". When you are facing 6-8 armor 12 vehicles you can't just knock off 3-4 a turn.

a) requiring flickerfields on your paper airplanes
b) losing your raiders and half your assault squads as they charge into the guns of the enemy to get into assault. let them come to you and then...'counter-attack.'


My problems are as follows:

1. It's not always easy to eyeball staying out of range, especially at longer distances. Sure, if you have Night Shields you can stay 43" away from 48" weapons and be fine. Saying "just stay that far away" is a tougher task than almost anyone can do with consistency.

2. Flickerfields are more reliable, which doesn't say much. Flickerfields are a must in my mind because you know that you should be able to ignore on average 1/3 shots that come your way. Night shields have uses sometimes, flickerfields are almost always good.

3. Most competitive lists have tons of ranged weapons. Or speed for that matter. Or deep strikers. Take your pick. Good GK lists spam Psyfleman. SW have missile long fangs. BA have Predators with autocannons and lascannons and missile devs and deep strikers. IG have tons of access to range. Mechdar will have missiles on their Serpents. Tau have Railguns. The list goes on.

Basically with any mech DE list the goal is to kick out the heavy weapons first. Night shields are a preference and some swear by them, but not everyone has a bionic eye

2nd Place 2015 ATC--Team 48
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Made in za
Mutilatin' Mad Dok





Hmmm.... my issue with Shadow fields... is often they only really help against Heavy Weapons squads squatting at the rear of the army, and helps in hindering Melta Weapons. Other firepower more forward, and firepower that can move then fire, will generally get into range regardless of Nightshields.

Splinter Cannons and Dark Lances have a range of 36". Many heavy weapons have a range of 48". Nightshields remove 6", which takes it down to 42", but that still outranges my Dark Lances and Splinter Cannons. Add in 6" movement, and it goes back up to 48".

Ultimately, if you're shooting at something that has heavy weapons, you have to be within firing range of most heavy weapons, regardless if you have Nightshields or not.

Against smaller caliber fire, they may find a more efficient purpose - but they are little help against Heavy Weapon fire.

Flickerfields, on the other hand, work against all fire, and even against close combat attacks.

   
Made in ca
Deadly Dark Eldar Warrior




Ontario

Thank you JGrand, I really appreciate your detailed insights. This idea was a passing thought I had and pursued for a few days or so. Thank you for helping me to come to the right conclusions about it.

Kharrak, when you say "most heavy weapons" have a range of 48 inches...pretty much all of them that have 48 inch ranges or above are listed in my post...just so you know. There's actually not that many. Most heavy weapons are 36 inches, which you can out-range with night shields. However I do agree with you that Flickerfields are the more reliable protection for de vehicles.


1850pts
W-L-D: 9-3-1 
   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut



New Zealand

More accurately most heavy weapons which actually get used in anything resembling a competitive list are 48" range. You have listed the majority of 48" range weapons there, but the number of 36" and 24" range weapons is probably even smaller particularly if you are only looking at anti tank weapons. By far the most common long ranged anti tank weapon is the Missile Launcher (for all races) and the second most common is probably the Autocannon, both of which the Nightshield is almost useless against because they still out range you (unless you are using one of the fliers).

Probably the most important thing you are ignoring is the ability of units to move and fire. Yes you might dodge a Multilaser or Heavy Bolter and get a Dark Lance shot off, but in return they can just move 6" (as in any vehicle or infantry which can move and fire) and they are back in range. For fast vehicles its basically impossible to avoid.

In short Nightshields are basically useless for any aggressive/assault based DE list, you can dodge melta a bit but they don't need 2D6 to pen you anyway. In a shooty list they can be helpful, but still of limited effect because apart from the missiles on the fighters you don't have any 48" range weapons yourself.
   
Made in za
Mutilatin' Mad Dok





As Powerguy pointed out, the ones I'm generally afraid of, and the ones I see the most of, are the 48" range ones you listed

And yes, as I touched upon, and as Powerguy expanded upon, units/vehicles moving and then shooting often make up for any loss Nightshields enforce.

Yes, there are many heavy weapons that are 32", and are reduces to 26", but again, several of those can be found on units/vehicles that can move 6" (some even 12") to make up for that loss.

So, they have their place - but they aren't universally effective by any means, and for 10pts it's not that attractive (to me, at least).

   
 
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