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The Salamanders tactics are all about short range firepower and ambushes. Their home world, Nocturne, ash wastes. Tectonic plates small in size, volcanoes, fold mountains, lava rivers, etc. Large open terrain. Something seems wrong.
For instance, Catachan, Catachan devils use short range firepower(flamers, demolishers, etc) because it suits their home world. It is not likely that a Catachan, on his home turf, would make a long range firefight. Yet Tau, come from Tau, a sand filled wasteland Use longer range firepower. They can see their foe coming from a mile of.
So, setting the scene. A battle company of Salamanders are tracking down a cultist horde. The cultists utilise massed infantry and large artillery. How would you get at them with your short range weapons. It would not be a problem for Catachans as they would be able to sneak easily with all the dense terrain you may find on Catachan. Tau would use their long range firepower to blast the foe (or mont'ka tactics, but that's off topic), with the desert plains of T'au. But Salamanders? They would get ripped by chaos mutated manticores and basilisks.

Salamanders tactics are unsuited to their home planets terrain. Why do they fight so. Why fusion weaponry, why not las? Why flamers, why not heavy bolters?

Eh?

zilegil wrote:The Salamanders tactics are all about short range firepower and ambushes. Their home world, Nocturne, ash wastes. Tectonic plates small in size, volcanoes, fold mountains, lava rivers, etc. Large open terrain. Something seems wrong.
For instance, Catachan, Catachan devils use short range firepower(flamers, demolishers, etc) because it suits their home world. It is not likely that a Catachan, on his home turf, would make a long range firefight. Yet Tau, come from Tau, a sand filled wasteland Use longer range firepower. They can see their foe coming from a mile of.
So, setting the scene. A battle company of Salamanders are tracking down a cultist horde. The cultists utilise massed infantry and large artillery. How would you get at them with your short range weapons. It would not be a problem for Catachans as they would be able to sneak easily with all the dense terrain you may find on Catachan. Tau would use their long range firepower to blast the foe (or mont'ka tactics, but that's off topic), with the desert plains of T'au. But Salamanders? They would get ripped by chaos mutated manticores and basilisks.

Salamanders tactics are unsuited to their home planets terrain. Why do they fight so. Why fusion weaponry, why not las? Why flamers, why not heavy bolters?

Black Templars think the same as you, but Salamander tactics win their battle, so nothing is wrong. Do you melta weaponry. Because flames fit in with their homeworld.

Just because they favor flame based weaponry doesn't mean they use only flamers and meltas exclusively. Way to pick out an unbelievably unrealistic example.

Let's see. You're off a bit in your knowledge of Salamanders.

First, the combat doctrine of the Salamanders follows the Codex Astartes, albeit with a preference for close-range combat. No mention of ambush tactics is ever made - in fact, Salamanders are less likely to conduct ambushes, as their reflexes are actually slower than that of normal Astartes.

The close-range aspect comes from their preferred weapons - meltas and flamers. The Cult of Prometheus, as well as their home world Nocturne, encourage an affinity with fire and heat.

As for your 'battle scene', you're making it sound as if the Astartes simply walk into battle. You're leaving out the use of Thunderhawks and Drop Pods to land a multitude of squads quickly into close range. You're also forgetting that the Salamanders have a higher number of suits of Terminator Armor, which they can use to teleport into battle.

infinite_array wrote:
As for your 'battle scene', you're making it sound as if the Astartes simply walk into battle. You're leaving out the use of Thunderhawks and Drop Pods to land a multitude of squads quickly into close range. You're also forgetting that the Salamanders have a higher number of suits of Terminator Armor, which they can use to teleport into battle.

Exactly. In this situation the Salamanders would probably drop drop pods around this horde of heathens and burn them all to a crisp with flamers and the like. Using the shock of the drop pod landing to initiate their assault.

I see where you're coming from, and offer the following:

Salamander tactics as they were developed on Nocturne were probably not the same as they are today. (You're right at their tactics wouldn't be as viable on their homeworld.)

However, as they went into the Great Crusade as the XVIII Legion, they had to establish their individuality. They chose to put a focus on the weapons which paid homage to their world and their background. (The heat, the flames, the forge, etc.) They became particularly skilled at building, modifying, and using these weapons (hence their Chapter Tactics emphasizing such weapons) during that time. They would, by necessity, develop tactics that make the greatest use of those weapons.

An armored assault, particularly one involving teleporting Firedrakes, drop pod inserted Marines, and Rhinos/Razorbacks bearing Tactical squads with flamers, multimeltas, and a combi-wielding sergeant. I use an army which uses (most of) these tactics.

This chain of events seems to make sense to me.

Another theory goes thusly: The midrange firefight, is, as you said, the baliwick of the Salamanders. However, they do not focus on getting to the enemy. They consider themselves, first and foremost, protectors of humanity. Particularly in defensive battles, they can just wait and let the enemies come to them.

If you want to see this in action, read Salamander and Firedrake by Nick Kyme.

It seems like Salamanders should make judicious use of incendiary missile launchers, napalm, etc. to disrupt enemy defenses before charging in. Maybe they have been shown to do so, but an interesting tactic to consider.

Ronin-Sage wrote:It seems like Salamanders should make judicious use of incendiary missile launchers, napalm, etc. to disrupt enemy defenses before charging in. Maybe they have been shown to do so, but an interesting tactic to consider.

IIRC, wasn't the Whirlwind first discovered (and used) by the Salamanders?

If you live an a volcanic world, it's hard to set up camp and hit enemies from afar because of the changing terrain, and there would be a heavy smoke screen everywhere as well, so low visibility. It's easier to stay mobile and just get close to what you're fighting.

They also hunted giant draconic salamanders, which would be difficult to snipe.

Mr Nobody wrote:If you live an a volcanic world, it's hard to set up camp and hit enemies from afar because of the changing terrain, and there would be a heavy smoke screen everywhere as well, so low visibility. It's easier to stay mobile and just get close to what you're fighting.

They also hunted giant draconic salamanders, which would be difficult to snipe.

Much better to melt its face off rather than hit it with a bullet that will bounce off