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Me again. New hiatus, new list.

CCS-220
Straken:
Medic:
Vox:
x2 Melta:
Carapace:

Vet Squad-100
Autocannon:
x3 SR:
Vox:

Vet Squad-100
Autocannon:
x3 SR:
Vox:

Vet Squad-100
x7 Shotguns:
x2 Melta:
Flamer:
Vox:

Chimera-70
Extra armor:

Chimera-70
Extra armor:

Vanquisher: 230
Pintle Stubber:
Extra Armor:
Pask:

Valkyrie: 110
HB Sponsons:

Now. General strategy is to have the autocannon squads take and hold objectives. The shotty squad gets stuck in with Straken's squad. Those two will have chimeras. That means I have an extra valkyrie, though.

Option 1: Switch Straken + Valkyrie out for something else, probs another Russ. Chimeras take CCS + Shotties to front.
Option 2: Replace valkyrie with something. Maybe a Hydra, or a new squad altogether.

Thoughts on either option/list? I'm wondering if the Flamer will be of more use than a third Melta in the shotty squad. Or should I replace it with a heavy flamer? Is a medic necessary for the CCS? Is extra armor useful on the Vanquisher? I'd like to keep it on the Chimeras because if they can't move with two squads in them that's just a recipe for disaster.

Thanks for your time.

Please do not post individual points costs - thanks!

Okay mate, first of all, you should really drop all the extra armor and voxes. Extra armor is next to useless and you don't really need the voxes.

I understand what you're going for with the SR/AC squads, but I predict they will meet with limited success. I think you should take GLs over snipers if you really want these squads, and I would give them chimeras too. Either ML/HB chimeras to help plink away at stuff or ML/HF chimeras to help clear objectives and cover.

If you're not putting guys in it, there's no good reason to take a valkyrie over a vendetta. Especially with HB sponsons, they will never get to fire. Either drop the valkyrie, put some guys in it or upgrade to vendetta (or at least MRPs).

Drop the vanquisher. Its best configuration is with HLC and even then a lot of people say it sucks ass. That's not a debate I'm looking to start right now but let's just say at 1000pts you don't want to spend 23% of your points on it. The extra armor is near wasted too because even if you ignore stunned it's still shaken and can't fire anyway. Your tank is just not very clever at all.

There's also straken. He's not really doing much here. You're paying 95pts for 12" of FC and CA but you only plan on using it on two squads of guardsmen. If you still want to take him, his armour save is already 3+ so you're only buying carapace for his squad. Don't know if that's the plan but yeah.

So GLs all around? Should I keep the autocannons? Also, what LR variant should I have?

You really are going to have trouble against people running any sort of mech list or bringing AV13-14.

The vanquisher as Almarine said is just an expensive and disappointing choice for 1k points. BS3 just means 3 hits in a 6 turn game(Or you have to pay even more points for pask just to get maybe 1 more hit). If you are set on a LR, at 1k points, the battle tank with a lascannon hull and no sponsoons is about the best option. You can move 6" and fire both weapons and it S8 AP3 template is good for infantry and light vehicles and the sponsoon gives it some AA capability.

Drop all the extra armor and the voxes. There is roughly only a 16% chance on any pen or glance the armor will be effective, and most people will just be firing till its destroyed to get the squishy KP's inside out.

I like the Autocannon vets. But if your doing that I wouldn't even bother with the SRs. Either throw flamers in and use them to defend objective or really nothing else.....GLs if you just have the points.

Your CCS is kinda point bloated. No reason to bring medic and CA unless your running plasma. Better off bringing 4 Flamers or 4 Meltas and using them as a killing unit. I personally bring mankillers with 3 Plasma, CA, Medic.

Use the points saved to flesh the valk out to a vendetta and then use it as a tank hunter. If your opponent has a nasty alpha strike, consider putting your melta vets or your CCS if it takes meltas in it and Outflank. Come in 12" and get out....bam 3 TL lascannon and 4 melta guns in their backfield.

For 230 points I would take the executioner any day with plasma sponsions if your trying to save points, battle tank or demolisher with no upgrades to any except the executioners sponsions.

I agree with removing the vox's and extra armor. I think there mostly useless. Extra armor is nice but the points are better spent elsewhere

Vanq is debatible. Pask makes it more usable but it still has it's place. Try it out for a game or two and determind for yourself if it does what you want it to do.

Straken is wasted in a list like this. Straken is best used with an assault blob or two, not with shotgun vets that don't want to get in close combat and are riding in a Chimera.

You can make an impressive gunline list with Vets, specially with Creed, Sentries, Grenadiers, Vox, 3 special weapons and a heavy weapon as BS 4. But you need to be able to advance and take objectives and hold them.

I think what your really suffering from is not knowing what you want to do with this list. You need to figure out a tactic and focus on it. If you want Straken, build around him. If you want Chimera assault, focus on that. If you want gunline, focus on it.

Some reason it double posted when i tried to edit. Ignore this one.

Thanks for all the comments guys, it's genuinely helping. I've revised my list; much of this I haven't purchased and my wallet is the big limit here.

750 point gunline.

CCS
-Creed
-vox
-x3 Melta
-Chimera w/ EA (I know, I know, I had points to kill though.)

Vet
-AC
-vox
-3 nade

Vet
-AC
-vox
-x3 nade

Vet
-Las
-vox
-x3 nade
-Grenadiers

LRBT just supports where needed and uses its battlecannon to thin herds and las to shoot hard targets.
CCS w/ creed zooms about giving orders to the squads. Twice the command radius was the big thing here.
I gave the las squad grenadiers because as they are the only real anti-tank I have aside from the LRBT I figured they'd take more fire.
Vox is there to ensure orders are received.

Thoughts? I'm debating the LRBT; should I put a vendetta there instead, ditch the EA and give another doctrine to a squad? Should I get rid of the Chimera?

Here is my thoughts on your revised list... You have to few troops to actually move foreward and capture objectives.

Try this on for size and see if this helps you do what you want to do...

CCS - 190pts
Creed, Vox, AC, Plasma, Camo Cloaks

PCS - 70pts
3x Flamers, Heavy Flamer, Meltabomb

PIS - 120pts
Commissar, 2x Power Weapon, Melta gun, Meltabomb

PIS - 80pts
Power Weapon, Melta gun, Meltabomb, Vox

HWS - 75pts
3x AC

HWS - 105pts
3x Lascannons

Vets - 105pts
3x Melta guns, Vox

Vets - 105pts
3x Melta guns, Vox

LRBT - 150pts

- 1000pts

Put the CCS as far forward as you can near a home objective. Place the HWSs (since they are scoring) on the home objective and within 24" of Creed. Remember they both have to see the target for 'Bring it Down!'. Have the 20 man blob move up to take and clear enemy objectives, using orders from Creed as needed for various Orders, including 'For Cadia!'. Use the Vets to provide cover and move the vets from cover to cover using 'Move! x3' as needed. Follow up the blob with your PCS to burn out units in cover and camp any captured objectives. Remember they can also issue a limited set of Orders, but only 1 a turn.

Yes, I know the Vets are exposed, but Chimeras are expensive and I felt more boots on the ground work better. If I could have afforded Grenadiers or Sentries I would have, but you had a LRBT so I wanted to leave it in.

You now have 4 ACs and 3 Lascannons along with a LRBT giving you cover fire, the ability to burn out stuff in cover and plenty of melta for vehicles. Your Blob, specially on a charge with 'For Cadia!' can not only inflict some damage but possibly survive. With 'Bring it Down!', your Vets will be TLed, so even firing at 12" might be worthwhile.

A foot list like this has a chance to do some damage and win, specially with Creed and his huge range.

Interesting melta vets you have there BlkTom. Never really thought about it but a squad or two of those if you're already running foot blobs could be really useful for holding objectives and area denial. Maybe with sentries.

That's awesome, thank you very much for the help. On a side note, have you had success with Rough Riders? What would their best uses be?

Rico wrote:Thanks for all the comments guys, it's genuinely helping. I've revised my list; much of this I haven't purchased and my wallet is the big limit here.

750 point gunline.

CCS
-Creed
-vox
-x3 Melta
-Chimera w/ EA (I know, I know, I had points to kill though.)

Vet
-AC
-vox
-3 nade

Vet
-AC
-vox
-x3 nade

Vet
-Las
-vox
-x3 nade
-Grenadiers

- Drop the grenadiers to either nothing or replace with sentries. You lascannon vets will best be used sitting on an objective in cover....so they will either have a 4+ save from that or a 3+ with the sentries. Paying for a 4+ armor save is pointless since all of the "no cover saved allowed" weapons tend to be AP4 also.

-Swap one of your 3x nade vets to flamers to protect from a horde spearhead. If say orks or something start to approach your team...just forgo the AC shots to move forward and roast with 3 flamers and rapid fire lasguns.

-I like the intention of creed, but honestly if he is in a Chimera you already added about 2-3" of command radius since you can measure from the hull, and by dropping him you can doctrine all of your vets. Sentries for the cover save or maybe give demolitions to your flame vets to help with countering blobs.

-I like the LRBT over the vendetta. You have nobody to put in the vendetta really since all your vets have Hvy weapons....and while the vendetta brings 3 TL Lascannon shots...it suffer from armor 12 and being unable to hide. The LRBT will be just merciless to kill at 750 points with its AV14/13/10 and it is a jack off all trades with its battle cannon and lascannon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rico wrote:That's awesome, thank you very much for the help. On a side note, have you had success with Rough Riders? What would their best uses be?

Use them to suicide charge stuff with same or lower Int.

At 750pts creed is a huge point sink. He gives you two more orders that you don't need because you hardly have two more units. If you want something outflanking on this level then get a sentinel or penal squad.

The thing about your veteran setup is that they're not equipped to actually do anything useful. About the only two things they can do are A: sit on home objectives and B: maybe take down a transport. They're pretty cheap and as I said I it could be nice in a blob army where it can let your more important troop units do their real job and kill stuff. Your army has no other troop units however, only a command squad and a tank, which means that your dudes can't get out of your deployment zone to take other objectives without leaving cover and dying. This means that you will never ever win a capture and control mission against an opponent that is smarter than his models.

Rough riders can be devastating at 750pts. They are best run naked and in small numbers to hide more easily. The price of a basic 5man squad with no upgrades is a fraction of that of many (common) squads it can absolutely cripple. I would take some chimeras to hide behind though.

Revised list

CCS - 165
Creed, Vox, AC, Sniper

PCS - 70pts
3x Flamers, Heavy Flamer, Meltabomb

PIS - 120pts
Commissar, 2x Power Weapon, Melta gun, Meltabomb

PIS - 80pts
Power Weapon, Melta gun, Meltabomb, Vox

HWS - 75pts
3x AC

HWS - 105pts
3x Lascannons

Vets - 105pts
3x Melta guns, Vox

Vets - 105pts
3x Melta guns, Vox

I'm trying to think of ways I can thin this down to 750 points without losing too much of the firepower. I'm at 825 at this point, I need to lose 75 points. The easy solution is ditching one of the HWS, but I like the flexibility of 3 ACs and 3 Las. I'm also generally facing MEQ. Any recommendations on what to thin out and what to keep?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Revised Revised...
Total: 750
CCS - 160
Creed, Vox, AC

PCS - 50pts
4x Flamers

PIS - 90pts
Commissar, Meltabomb

PIS - 60pts
Vox, Meltabomb

HWS - 75pts
3x AC

HWS - 105pts
3x Lascannons

Vets - 105pts
3x Melta guns, Vox

Vets - 105pts
3x Melta guns, Vox

How's that? Kept Meltabombs on the blob squad cause I figured the PCS would be more crowd control while the blob attacks tanks. Ditched the melta guns in the blob because I didn't want to drop a melta from the Vets, wasting their precious 4 BS. Thoughts?

I think you would be better off dropping the 3 Lascannons or ACs and bringing chimeras for the vets. Give them mobility to go for objective or at least keep them alive from dakka dakka stuff.

Can use the tanks to create cover for your other stuff.

4 Flamer PCS is great, but on foot you will have to keep them "hidden" or try to present better threats to your opponent or they will just wipe them out turn 1.

Overall its a pretty standard foot blob for 750 points, I am still not sold on creed at that level...dropping him lets you transport and better arm your CCS to handle stuff like 2+ saves.

The main problem with your list is it can be beaten by 1 unit from most codex. Space marines bring Terminators and you just won't have the AP2 shots to work them down. If they bring devastators they will just target your HWS first and then work your army down with templates outside of your range. The same with Dakka Dakka preds which cost a measly 85 points each.

One LR BT will be a nightmare for you, again going for HWS turn 1, then just working on you with armor you can't pen unless your within 6" with the footslogging vets.



I mean the 3 Lascannons are good and give you much needed long range firepower...and at 750 there won't ever be much AV12+ on the board. However, they are a easy target to hit and one that only has a fragile 6 wounds. Dropping creed + the AC's might give you enough to chimera your vets which gives you two options for killing tanks. The meltas in chimeras will also allow them to take on stuff like bikers/speeders/termies much easier.