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May an infiltrating 10x Terminators unit, thanks to Shrikes abilities, being splitted after deployment?

Urgent, starting now a game.

Shrike isnt part of a squad until you declare he has joined a squad. (and you deploy accoridingly) At that point you also need to declare if you are combat squadding said unit (if applicable) Should you combat squad he only confers Infiltrate to the unit he is with so the other 5 models do not gain his rule since they are not part of his unit.

No.

You Combat Squad during deployment.

Shrike can only deploy with one unit. If they were deployed as two units, then one of them wouldn't have been deployed with Shrike.

If they are deployed as two units, neither of them can deploy with Shrike... Combat Squadding happens on deployment, so since only one of them (the unit going with Shrike) would be able to infiltrate, and that would mean that they can't be deployed when the other unit is deployed, that would be an illegal deployment.

You have to deploy them both at the same time. So either they infiltrate as a single unit with Shrike, or they combat squad and deploy normally.

insaniak wrote:If they are deployed as two units, neither of them can deploy with Shrike... Combat Squadding happens on deployment, so since only one of them (the unit going with Shrike) would be able to infiltrate, and that would mean that they can't be deployed when the other unit is deployed, that would be an illegal deployment.

You have to deploy them both at the same time. So either they infiltrate as a single unit with Shrike, or they combat squad and deploy normally.

This is the way we interpreted it at our FLGS. If you pay careful attention to the Combat Squad, IC, and Deployment rules and the order they occur the answer is pretty clear. Unfortunately it requires a lot of careful reading from several sections and a quick glance at FAQs. Such is life with 40k!

Though to be fair, when you outflank that is a whole other ball of wax. Since you delcare that Shrike is with them before the game starts, put them in reserve, and roll for them to come on together in outflank, when they actually come on is when they are deployed and thus eligable for combat squad. So from what I understand you can outflank with shrike and combat squad. Holes in that logic?

Nothing that I can see.

DevianID wrote: So from what I understand you can outflank with shrike and combat squad. Holes in that logic?

The only problem is that once you decide to split a unit into combat squads, they are separate units from that point for all game purposes.
So you have a unit of 10 termies with Shrike.
You reserve this unit and declare that it will outflank.
They can outflank due to Shrikes special rule.
When they arrive, you must roll for the entire unit to arrive together.
If you now decide to split them putting Shrike with one squad, then the squad with Shrike can outflank.
The other squad though no longer has the ability to outflank and so would have to come on ffrom the table edge.
Since combat squads can be deployed in separate locations, this breaks no rules.
The unit was rolled for together, they arrived together, they split into combat squads, they arrived at different locations.
Difference is one squad used its special outflank ability.

DevianID wrote:Though to be fair, when you outflank that is a whole other ball of wax. Since you delcare that Shrike is with them before the game starts, put them in reserve, and roll for them to come on together in outflank, when they actually come on is when they are deployed and thus eligable for combat squad. So from what I understand you can outflank with shrike and combat squad. Holes in that logic?

Per the Space Marine FAQ, units that enter play from reserves cannot combat squad.

PanzerLeader wrote:

DevianID wrote:Though to be fair, when you outflank that is a whole other ball of wax. Since you delcare that Shrike is with them before the game starts, put them in reserve, and roll for them to come on together in outflank, when they actually come on is when they are deployed and thus eligable for combat squad. So from what I understand you can outflank with shrike and combat squad. Holes in that logic?

Per the Space Marine FAQ, units that enter play from reserves cannot combat squad.

Actually, you cannot combat squad units into reserve.
When they arrive from reserve, they are now being deployed and can be split into combat squads as normal.

Q: Can you take a Drop Pod with a 10-man squad and
then put a combat squad in it, deploying the other combat
squad on the table, or leave it in reserve but not in the
Drop Pod? (p69)
A: No, because squads that are placed in reserve may not
break down into combat squads.

The FAQ re-affirms that you cannot split a unit into combat squads and place one combat squad in reserve.
This is because units are split into combat squads when they deploy.
When you place a unit into reserve, this is done instead of deploying.

Note that the FAQ says units "...placed in reserve..." not units "...arriving from reserve..."

I think you missed the big point. Units are placed into reserves as part of deployment. This includes units that are arriving via outflanking from infiltrating and scouts. I.E. the unit is deployed into the reserve pool and thus forfeits its opportunity to combat squad. The only exception is a squad in a drop pod, whose codex specific rules allow it to combat squad when it arrives and disembarks from the transport.

PanzerLeader wrote:I think you missed the big point. Units are placed into reserves as part of deployment. This includes units that are arriving via outflanking from infiltrating and scouts. I.E. the unit is deployed into the reserve pool and thus forfeits its opportunity to combat squad. The only exception is a squad in a drop pod, whose codex specific rules allow it to combat squad when it arrives and disembarks from the transport.

Nope, haven't missed a thing. Main rulebook page 94 under Preparing reserves, "When deploying their army, players may choose not to deploy one or more of the units in their army and instead leave them in reserve." {all emphasis mone}

Units are not deployed into reserve, they are deployed onto the table.

The quoted SM FAQ prohibits a player from taking a 10 man tac squad, giving it a drop pod, then combat squadding the tac squad into 2 combat squads placing one in reserve and deploying the other in the pod.

The drop pod rule allows a 10 man squad to arrive via the pos, and then split into combat squads at that point, after they have arrived on the table. Every other time you split a unit into combat squads, it is done as they deploy at the same time they are being deployed onto the table.

"Units are placed into reserves as part of deployment. "

This is wrong, see Time above, and reread, carefully, the rules on page 94 if you dont believe the quotes here

Reserves is instead of deploying

nosferatu1001 wrote:"Units are placed into reserves as part of deployment. "

This is wrong, see Time above, and reread, carefully, the rules on page 94 if you dont believe the quotes here

Reserves is instead of deploying

Right. I relooked at it. No issues there. However, I have not found anything that supports the assertion that arriving from reserves = deploying. Still don't see how a unit arriving from reserves can combat squad.

So a squad arriving on the table hasnt been deployed?

nosferatu1001 wrote:So a squad arriving on the table hasnt been deployed?

Deployment occurs before the game. A unit arriving from reserves enters the game using special rules describing how and where it can move onto the board. It would appear that arriving from reserves does not equal deploying, hence marines could not combat squad.

PanzerLeader wrote:
Right. I relooked at it. No issues there. However, I have not found anything that supports the assertion that arriving from reserves = deploying. Still don't see how a unit arriving from reserves can combat squad.

Further down on page 94 second paragraph under Rolling for reserves, "Once all of the units have been rolled for, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it, moving it onto the table as described later." {emphasis mine}

Codex Space Marines. page 51 under Combat Squads, "The decision to split the unit into combat squads, as well as which models go into each combat squad, must be made when the unit is deployed." {emphasis mine}

When you arrive from reserves, you are being deployed.
When you are being deployed you may split into combat squads.

time wizard wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:
Right. I relooked at it. No issues there. However, I have not found anything that supports the assertion that arriving from reserves = deploying. Still don't see how a unit arriving from reserves can combat squad.

Further down on page 94 second paragraph under Rolling for reserves, "Once all of the units have been rolled for, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it, moving it onto the table as described later." {emphasis mine}

Codex Space Marines. page 51 under Combat Squads, "The decision to split the unit into combat squads, as well as which models go into each combat squad, must be made when the unit is deployed." {emphasis mine}

When you arrive from reserves, you are being deployed.
When you are being deployed you may split into combat squads.

Yup. Agree. I was reading the "Arriving Section" not the "Rolling Section."