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Have you seen anybody ever use him? And is there a reason at all to use him in the first place?

He certainly seems useful, but nearly doubling the cost of a basic Vet squad really means you have to know what your doing with him.

If your plan on having your Vet squads far away from your CCS's than you might consider him. Not for me, personally.

While his LD 10 and ability to use a command on his own unit might be tempting, I still believe that 60pts is still far too much to pay. But if you have the extra points give him a shot, he might suprise you. I have yet to try him out.

He's cool and I've always wanted to use him but his points just are too much to justify, maybe i'll try him in a casual list some day.

I've used him, he's great (in theory) for a Veteran squad that's far off from the main force (outflanking, etc). However, him nearly doubling the cost of the squad is just too much. Would you rather have a naked squad with him or a squad with a chimera and a flamer/grenade launcher?

If he were say, a third of his price, I'd consider taking him. But not at his current cost.

My experience with him has been mixed. He managed to keep his squad alive a little longer, but his squad kinda needs carapace armor and close range weapons. He carries a six inch range weapon, so he needs to get close and you need grenadiers to keep them alive that close. I have heard of making his squad ranged but I haven't tried it and think it would limit him. YMMV.

Drop them in with a valk, then use orders to twin-link their meltas against a tank. Points earned back, even if they don't see out the next turn.

Only real use for him I have seen so far.

Eh, you go from 2/3 hits to 8/9 hits. Is that extra hit worth 60 points?

While Harker is great(The Gunny brings quite a bit of benefits for his points cost); Bastonne brings very little.

His points cost would be justified if he brought Carapace for his unit as well as his personal suit.

Bragg: A character with a 6" s3 pistol is never wasted when you keep the enemy at arms length; especially when that same character can T-L your good guns vs Vehicles/MC or force a Re-roll from your enemies Cover saves.

He wants a Heavy Weapon, and all 3 Specials, all 4 should be long ranged. this unfortunately makes him rather expensive, especially when you go with 3 Plasmas and an AC. He and his unit can easily cost 3x the cost of a Base Vet squad + 5 points(Vets, Bastonne, AC, 3 Plasmas, Grenadiers) Worst part of that is that his wargear only costs 15 points(3 points for his personal carapace, which you wind up paying for again when you give the squad grenadiers, and about 2 points for the hot-shot las pistol, then the 10 points for a power weapon), so that means the ability to grant his unit all orders and his +1 WS, and +2 Ld are all supposedly "worth" 45 additional points.

It is seriously more cost effective to just add a second CCS, and deploy them in the refused flank with the Vet squad that would have been Bastonne's(although you do lose a 19.44% chance to successfully give the orders to said vet squad).

I have tried Bastonne at length when I first started building my guard; putting him in a Transport removes his most expensive ability until he and his crew can dump out(removing the chimera as a viable option, why pay 60 extra points for a basic Chimelta-Vet squad) and the Valk/Vend Squads are generally suicide squads so you want to keep them fairly cheap(I have had success with Plasma-Grenadiers in the Valk, but that is still between 1/2 and 1/3 the cost of Bastonne in there). Charging Flamer Squads is better done with either the Gunney, a SWS, or a Platoon Command Squad.

Again he would be either more worth it or almost worth it if he brought Carapace for his crew(much like how Harker brings most of "Foreward Sentries to his crew, along with a Slew of Personal abilities and an assault Heavy Bolter).

Overpriced. It's like the designers want to charge the player for bastonne's personal combat ability, equipment and morale bonus (none of which are useful to a veteran squad, because they are usually a cheap special weapons delivery system) so the actual benefit, the order, isn't worth the cost.

The Grog wrote:Eh, you go from 2/3 hits to 8/9 hits. Is that extra hit worth 60 points?

I believe you mean extra 2 hits. 2/3 = 6/9, so 8/9 would be two more hits. Unless I didn't understand what you were getting at, in which case I apologize. But I see your point.

2/3 is the chance of hitting per shot with BS4.

8/9 is the chance of hitting per shot with T-L BS4.

The end result in 1 turn of shooting with 3 single-shot weapons is 2 for not T-L, and all 3 for T-L(on average).

Putting these in Fraction form is confusing because in this case you can expand the lesser chance into something it does not represent. More accurately it would be a 66.666% vs an 88.888% chance; equating to 1 more hit per turn.

Penguinmasterofdoom wrote:

The Grog wrote:Eh, you go from 2/3 hits to 8/9 hits. Is that extra hit worth 60 points?

I believe you mean extra 2 hits. 2/3 = 6/9, so 8/9 would be two more hits. Unless I didn't understand what you were getting at, in which case I apologize. But I see your point.

That's if you're firing 9 shots. With three single shot special weapons you're increasing the average number of meaningful hits from 6/3 (two) to 24/9 (two and two thirds). Goes from four hits to five and a third if you're firing plasma rapidly. It's quite likely you'll get more extra lasgun hits too but that doesn't really matter when you're shooting at vehicles.

I like to compare what I could get instead, and that generally speaks for itself... I can give the vet squad a chimera and make them more mobile. The only character I'd seriously consider would be Harker, but with these characters it's all in how you use em.

Rico..