40k player starting Fantasy (Dark Elves)

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**The Fragile Breath**

Hey there, I'm not sure anyone will remember, but a few months ago, I posted a thread where I asked for some help in deciding which army was for me, I ultimately decided on Daemons, had a list built, and played them for several games. However... I hated them.

So! I've gotten to trying Dark Elves and I really like them. So I have a few questions:

1. What are some good units I should consider taking? I've found I love using a Sorceress, and Cold One Knights are also awesome. I'm not asking for a pre-built list, just your opinion of what is good.

2. Is the battalion really worth it?

3. I find a lot of the current models to be... Well, really ugly. I love the new Sorceress coming out for Storm of Magic, I love the new Black Dragon for SoM as well, and the Corsairs and Cold Ones are just awesome. Other models I'm really not a fan of, I'm already planning on getting some Wood Elf archers to use since fluff-wise, my Elves aren't going to exactly be evil, just more that they care first and foremost about themselves. Anyways, I'd love to see some suggestions of some non-GW elves/dark elves that look good.

Thanks in advance!

Edit: Another question! Any tips on making a paint scheme? I like bright colors... I want them to be brightly colored, probably unrealistic hair color, pale skin... I don't know, I'm open to suggestions!

**Ralin Givens**

I think the DE battalion is worth it and your going to want to pick up atleast one Hydra

**The Fragile Breath**

Ralin Givens wrote:I think the DE battalion is worth it and your going to want to pick up atleast one Hydra

I liked using my Hydra in the game last night, it did pretty well, but is there a decent alternate model that isn't so expensive? I'm not sure I can be okay with spending sixty bucks on a model, not to mention I'm trying to see if I can boycott Finecast.

**fuzzydeath**

I commonly use a Hydra model made by another company entirely (Reaper). Not only is it cheaper, it looks tons better. In fact, when I place it next to my GW one I own, people often remark how GW's 'old' hydra looks like such a piece of trash compared to the 'new' (Reaper) one. Sure sure some places or players may b!tch about it, but IMO if you're gonna shell out the amount of money it takes to play a minis game, you're entitled to play with a couple 3rd party minis here and there

As far as what else is good.. I never leave home without a Cauldron without regretting it. It's head and shoulders above most other BSB options available as well. Admittedly, the one other excellent BSB option is a Hydra banner for the Cold Ones you've already said you admired

One of the strenths of the DE book is that the troops are all so solid.. particularly the core selections. I like taking one or two big blocks of spears to bump my headcount up because of the importance on numbers in 8th ed.. and numbers are the one distinction Dark Elves have over the High and Wood variants of elves that otherwise share the same statlines. (indeed sometimes I'm actually not the outnumbered army on the field in some games

Even lowly spearelfs are no slouches.. and they're outright devastating with support from Cauldron and Shadow Lore hexes!

**Ralin Givens**

The Fragile Breath wrote:
Ralin Givens wrote:I think the DE battalion is worth it and your going to want to pick up atleast one Hydra

I liked using my Hydra in the game last night, it did pretty well, but is there a decent alternate model that isn't so expensive? I'm not sure I can be okay with spending sixty bucks on a model, not to mention I'm trying to see if I can boycott Finecast.

The Hydra is not finecast but Banebeasts have a good Hydra

**Vulcan**

DE are the sort of army where you just have to play with everything to find out what works well for your playstyle. In general, RXBmen are great for fire-support and backup close-combat blocks. Spearmen are the ultimate Sorceress bunker (presuming she has the Sacrifical Dagger...

). Corsairs and Witches murder T3 troops in close combat. Executioners (in large numbers) can do nasty things to heavy infantry and cavalry. Dark Riders, Shades, and Harpies all help you control the maneuver battle. Cold One Knights and Chariots just hit like a ton of bricks. Black Guard crush small units of just about anything (being limited in maximum unit size, they eventally die to large units). Hydras also can take a beating and just keep on asking for more (I had one break and run down a unit of Ogres with Greatweapons (Flaming banner allowed the two survivors to lay three wounds on it), then go on to eat two Gorgers and help break a unit of normal Ogre infantry. It just wouldn't die!).

And some people even manage to use Reaper Bolt Throwers to telling effect as well.

It all depends on your playstyle.

**giant stegadon**

I think the battalion would be a good buy for you- you get the knights you like & it helps fill out your core. Frenzied Corsairs are now the cool new thing (especially Mind-Razored ones...). During 7th those poor guys were almost completely ignored. Be incredibly mindful when assembling them too because they are prone to being really difficult to rank up.

As said, spearmen are also a good Sorceress bunker, and depending on your plans you might just want a ton of crossbows.

To me, it seems like people typically go for Black Guard over Executioners.

edit: also I agree with you some of the models are... dated let's say. Sticking to GW's range one could fairly easily convert some IoB Sword Masters to Exec's (also waaay cheaper), and there is a lot in the Dark Eldar range that can be used.

**Vulcan**

Even if you don't want the specific units from the battalion, you can convert the models to a lot of the other stuff in the DE range for less than the GW metals.

Shades are easy. Greestuff over the scales on the cloaks of RHB corsairs.

Black Guard can be made out of spearmen. Just sculpt some armor plates over the upper legs and an axehead on the spear blades.

Executioners are a bit trickier. You would need some bitz from somewhere else for the arms, but the spearhead with the 'clipped' point makes a nifty druchi greatsword. Or you can use the IOB Swordmasters with that same blade.

The Wood Elf Glade Rider kit and the DE Warriors can be used to kitbash Dark Riders. I recommend Corsair Handbows, though, and the Warrior's 'standard pole' spears. Or, you could use the IOB Ellryian Reavers with the same weapons.

Even Witches can be kitbashed out of Corsair legs, arms, and heads with the Warriors female torso. Paint her up in a black leather corset and away you go.

Finally, you can use all those parts to make some unique characters, or convert existing ones. Want your lord on cold one to have a Sea Dragon Cloak? Get the back half of a Corsair toros and file to fit.

**The Fragile Breath**

Thanks for the ideas, Vulcan!

I've played a few games since I last posted, I think I really like Dark Riders as well. Do you recommend I outfit them with bows? My Corsairs have yet to do anything, any time I play my opponent just keeps dodging them.

I was thinking of getting the Wood Elf Glade Guard to use as my archers, and to be honest, I'd be fine using the Glade Riders without kitbashing. While I'm using the book for Dark Elves, I don't feel like mine have to be particularly sinister looking.

Would you recommend putting a Sorceress in a block of Warriors? I've been using her with a Dark Pegasus to fly around and stay out of reach.

Giant stegadon: Thanks for the tip, that's definitely worth noting! I'd like them to look good and go together.

**Vulcan**

Well, if you are going pre-Sundering then the longbows will work, visually speaking. Lots of clean, silver armor and lighter colors with just a hint of malice works well for that era.

The Sorceress goes in the big block of Spearmen to take advantage of the best DE arcane item, the Sacrifical Dagger. You don't want to be sacrificing expensive guys with that thing, 6-7 point spearmen work the best. And there's nothing like using the Dagger to get a spell off that otherwise would have failed.

Dark Riders and Shades may well be the most effective shooting you'll get. Shade's BS 5, Dark Rider's 18" march, and both can march and shoot; you'll almost always be in short range.

This is not to say that RXBs don't have a place. I find they make good backup close-combat blocks for the countercharge. They have the same statline as spearmen, but gain additional resilience through the parry save. Handy, that.

**tmarichards**

Units of 10 shades are, by far, the best option you can take out of the DE book. Wherever possible, I start off my lists with 2 units of them with additional hand weapons.

**The Fragile Breath**

tmarichards wrote:Units of 10 shades are, by far, the best option you can take out of the DE book. Wherever possible, I start off my lists with 2 units of them with additional hand weapons.

Would you mind telling me how so?

Okay, so I have a few questions, keep in mind I currently play 1,000 points.

What's a good number for a unit of Cold One Knights? Is five okay or should I use more? Should I give them a banner and if so, which one?

Should I use a Cold One Chariot instead?

How many Witch Elves should be in a unit for them to be effective? Are Hags worth it/what upgrade should be given in the Gifts of Khaine? I was thinking about using Manbane, but I'm not sure.

I currently use Lore of Dark Magic on my Sorceress, should I use one of the others instead? I mostly face Vampire Counts.

Also, silly question, but can I only take one Arcane Item on my Sorceress? I've been giving her the Tome of Furion (+1 spell) but would like to give her the Sacrificial Dagger as recommended, but I'm not sure it's legal.

I've still got much to learn, I haven't had very many games and have seen some units not do anything yet, so I'll keep trying them out. Corsairs with Frenzy sound awesome, but they haven't actually seen combat yet!

I must say that I love Finecast. No, not because of Finecast itself, but my FLGS is having a huge sale because of it! I scored many metal models I was looking for, all dirt cheap, so you could say I'm pretty happy about that. I'd also like to take this time to thank you all for giving me advice, and for putting up with my lack of knowledge on Fantasy. I don't like to look like a fool by asking a ton of questions, but I know you all know what you're doing and am hoping to learn to use it!

**Kroothawk**

I found the DE Warriors and Dark Riders ugly, so I switched to Gamezone metals, although they are more expensive.

As a hydra I use this one:
http://www.warpathgames.com/wholesale/warpath.php?m=detail&p=72547

**The Fragile Breath**

Those Warriors are quite beautiful! It's just a shame they're so much more expensive, or I'd probably spring for them. That Hydra is also pretty awesome, though I think I'm going to have to continue proxying mine for a while, since any good looking Hydra is pretty pricey! I may have to get that Hydra when I am ready to buy one, though, it's definitely one of the nicer ones I've seen.

**Vulcan**

At 1000 points, you have to make some hard choices. Do you want a significant magic phase? A hardcore combat character? Lots of small units or a couple big ones? Do you want to maneuver and combo charge, shoot a lot, or march right up the middle? DE can do that... but you have to make the right choices in your army list.

So... what do you want them to do for you?

**Casper**

The Fragile Breath wrote:

Okay, so I have a few questions, keep in mind I currently play 1,000 points.

What's a good number for a unit of Cold One Knights? Is five okay or should I use more? Should I give them a banner and if so, which one?

Should I use a Cold One Chariot instead?

How many Witch Elves should be in a unit for them to be effective? Are Hags worth it/what upgrade should be given in the Gifts of Khaine? I was thinking about using Manbane, but I'm not sure.

I currently use Lore of Dark Magic on my Sorceress, should I use one of the others instead? I mostly face Vampire Counts.

Also, silly question, but can I only take one Arcane Item on my Sorceress? I've been giving her the Tome of Furion (+1 spell) but would like to give her the Sacrificial Dagger as recommended, but I'm not sure it's legal.

Like Vulcan said at 1000 points you have to really pick one path and stick to it. DE have one of the most flexible books out there with many different play styles - with no terrible units.

I personally do not recommend magic at under 1000 points. Most infantry will shrug off magic missle spells and trying for one of the big ones really isn't that effective - plus you miss out on the rest of the game tatically speaking if you blow away your opponents army with an uber spell.

CoK should be run in either a unit of 5 with nothing or a unit of 10. I'm currently messing around with a unit of 10 w/Musician, I have seen them wreak a target and bounce of a weaker target later that same game.

Chariots usually are better because they kill on average the same number of guys for cheaper. They also have a smaller footprint - i never leave home without 1 of them.

I don't use witch elves but a unit of 20 - 25 is a safe bet - they have no armor so they need the extra bodies to make it to combat. I would add a had if you have spare points, otherwise their normal poison is just fine.

As for magic lores, I personally like Shadow for my primary caster - for the debuff spells. I then usually have a backup caster with either Death or Metal.

Yes your caster can only have 1 arcane item. I don't like the Sac Dagger because i find my warriors tend to get into combat and I don't want to kill off extra ranks. Others have found good use for it though.

**The Fragile Breath**

Vulcan wrote:At 1000 points, you have to make some hard choices. Do you want a significant magic phase? A hardcore combat character? Lots of small units or a couple big ones? Do you want to maneuver and combo charge, shoot a lot, or march right up the middle? DE can do that... but you have to make the right choices in your army list.

So... what do you want them to do for you?

I want them to destroy my buddy's Vampire Counts. I haven't gotten a feel for the game enough to know exactly how to counter his army. He likes to use a Vampire with all spells, Ethereals, Crypt Ghouls, and lots of zombies. The list I wrote to try to counter it (haven't tried it yet) has a mounted Sorceress, a Hydra, two units of five Cold One Knights, a unit of Dark Riders with repeaters, and a block of twenty Corsairs.

I'll definitely try a chariot out in my next game, maybe some Witch Elves too, if it seems appropriate.

See, my one problem with not using magic in 1000 points is that everyone I face uses it too, I feel like I'd be at a disadvantage, especially against Vampires, not taking a Sorceress means he has unkillable units (Ethereals), not to mention that I've neither had enemy units shrug magic off or be completely devastated, it's always been a pretty satisfying amount of wounds. I see why you don't recommend it, but I feel that it's necessary in my group.

**Casper**

You'll need more blocks of troops at 1000 points if you plan on dealing with VC on a regular basis. They don't flee so after 1 round of combat the CoK usually will not last long.

He may have magic but I doubt its at the lord level. If you want magic take a lvl 2 with tome and thats it, gives you 3 spells to mess with and enough points for the rest of your army.