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So was watching a tournament game today and a SW in question was giving SW a bad name, specifically with TWC. He had already tried to play off NFW instant death wounds on like twc models wrong to avoid losing an extra TWC, but in his next game he tried something else that seemed fishy to me.

He has a wolf lord on a twm and four identical twc try to assault three different tyranid units. He moved his closest model (wolf lord) into base to base with the closest tyranid model and then moved his other twc spread out to get into the other squads. Now when he checked and was not in coherency to the wolf lord, he rotated the wolf lord and the twc around the tyranid model bases to then be in coherency. He could originally assault multiple units and maintain coherency, he could only get it after he had performed the rotations.

By rotating, I mean that when he assaulted and moved into base to base at 6'o'clock of the tyranid base, he then rotated his twc bases around the tyranid base to like 11'o'clock.

Now I am of the opinion that you move your first model into base to base with the closest enemy model and then if you can move your other models into base to base with other enemy units while maintaining coherency, it is a legal multi-multi-assault. You cannot move your first model into base to base, then move your other models into base to out of coherency, then rotate your models aound enemy base to get coherency.

Thoughts/opinioins?

You have it correct.

You move each model once at a time, and you CANNOT go back and re-move, including rotating (i assume you mean he used the mdoels like gear wheels?) in order to get back into coherency - as he has contravened one of the bullets, which is thayt you must end your move with that model in coherency. If you have to re-move the other models then you have broken that rule

For ordinary movement, this would have been fine. There is no rule that says that you can't change the position of previously moved models in the same unit... It's not like Chess, where the model's movement is finished once you take your hand off it. It's only once you have moved on to the next unit that you are forbidden from further tinkering.

However, assault moves are a little more restricted. You move a single model at a time, and each model after the first has to finish its movement in coherency with a previously moved model from the same unit.

So no, going back and fiddling with a previously moved model in this case would not be legal, as unlike in the movement phase, where the unit just has to finish its movement with everybody in coherency, in the assault phase each model has to be in coherency after making its assault move. If you finish moving that model and then have to move something else before that model is in coherency, you are breaking the rules for moving assaulting models.

Yea, that is what i thought and yes he was rotating them like gear wheels to get into coherency AFTER assaulting them OUT of coherency.

It was a bad tournament for this guy on rulings today. It was interesting that the only two shouting arguments heard out of a 16 player 1750pt tournament today were both him. I didn't stick around for game 3, but the first two games were pretty bad.

His first game he had 3 NFW wounds on 3 identical twc, one on each. When the GK passed his psychic test for the NFW, he then insisted that he needed to remove whole models and shifted two of the now ID wounds on one TWC and one on the other, leaving the third twc no longer with an ID wound. Judge overruled him, owner of the store overruled him, and then when his friend (previously arguing for him as well) read the NFW entry, also ruled against him. Even then he was still gumbling about it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

insaniak wrote:For ordinary movement, this would have been fine. There is no rule that says that you can't change the position of previously moved models in the same unit... It's not like Chess, where the model's movement is finished once you take your hand off it. It's only once you have moved on to the next unit that you are forbidden from further tinkering.

However, assault moves are a little more restricted. You move a single model at a time, and each model after the first has to finish its movement in coherency with a previously moved model from the same unit.

So no, going back and fiddling with a previously moved model in this case would not be legal, as unlike in the movement phase, where the unit just has to finish its movement with everybody in coherency, in the assault phase each model has to be in coherency after making its assault move. If you finish moving that model and then have to move something else before that model is in coherency, you are breaking the rules for moving assaulting models.

How about this question then.

When you originally assault and move the model into base to base with the closest model, can you move your model to the side of the enemy base? So for example, the closest enemy mode is right in front of me, can I assault so that I am in base to base with him on say the right, left, or even behind him or is it the most direct route?

Left my rulebook in my truck and it is pretty hot outside so don't feel like getting it.....LOL.

You have to move the first model into contact with the closest enemy model by the shortest possible route.

So no, you can't move to the side or behind the model unless intervening obstacles make moving directly impossible.

That is what I thought. Glad it was ruled the correct way.

The FIRST model must take the shortest available route to get into base-to-base contact. All other models do not need to take the shortest route.

There is also additional rules for an IC. If you have one, then he needs to move into base-to-base contact first, even if that means moving friendly models aside to make room. This was in the latest FAQ. Then everyone else can move wherever the heck they want to get into the assault - it doesn't need to be the shortest route.

This is something to consider when multi-assaulting or when considering how you will wind up AFTER the assault.

WAAAGHAKI wrote:The FIRST model must take the shortest available route to get into base-to-base contact. All other models do not need to take the shortest route.

They do still need to finish their move in coherency, though.

There is also additional rules for an IC. If you have one, then he needs to move into base-to-base contact first, even if that means moving friendly models aside to make room. This was in the latest FAQ. Then everyone else can move wherever the heck they want to get into the assault - it doesn't need to be the shortest route.

That only applies to pile ins and Reaction moves, not to a unit that is making assault moves.

So the rules for multiple assaults state that you can assault models in other units as long as they keep following the rules for assaulting models. So the first bullet point is each model must END its move IN coherency with another model in its own unit after it moved. (so he could not end the models move at all out of coherency then go back and spin the other models around as he did in your example). The way this rule reads it seems that you move each model one at a time. Is this actually the case or does the whole unit move together? When does the move count as ended? Right when that single model has moved or when the whole unit has been deemed to have finished its assault move together?

I never realized that you can just straight out assault a second enemy unit after moving the first guy. (I always read it as each model must take the shortest route to the nearest model) Its tricky though as you would very carefully have to move models one at a time ending each move in coherency. You couldn't for example move your first model to an enemy. then move the second model at a different enemy that would result in it being 5 inches away. then move the rest of the models to put the second one back into coherency. Assuming that I'm right of course in that you move one model at a time until its moved is finished, and then you move another friendly model. Could someone clarify this for me? Does this even make sense? I should stop reading the rules this in depth when its late lol.

The other issue is what is the frame of reference for coherency? The diagram in all the examples measures the 2" coherence specifically from a models base, not its body parts. However, the written rule doesn't specify either from the base or body part. Again I've always measured from the base as I've seen this as the rules intent. Additionally, on page 3 it says that, "A model is considered to occupy the area of its base, so when measuring distances between two models, use the closest point of their bases as your reference points." So, in your example, turning the model is a moot point since its a circular base the Thunder Wolf was on right? I imagine this guy measured from the wolf's tail or something; he cannot do that.

Sucio Sanchez wrote:The way this rule reads it seems that you move each model one at a time. Is this actually the case or does the whole unit move together? When does the move count as ended? Right when that single model has moved or when the whole unit has been deemed to have finished its assault move together?

As you say, (and as I pointed out before) the assault process requires you to move one model at a time. So that model's movement is finished when you move on to the next one.

The other issue is what is the frame of reference for coherency?

All measurement for based models (other than skimmer) is to and from the model's base, as per page 3.