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I have looked around, but have been unsuccessful in finding a 5ed blood angels tacticia. I am currently putting together my models and am pretty new to the game and would like to understand the units better.

Could someone please provide a link to information on the blood angel units

What kind of BA army do you want to play, DoA or mech?
Mixed lists are questionable.

Not really sure what the difference is.

I will assume that DoA is centered around Death Company and Assault troops, with a focus on getting in there fast and furious. And that a mech army is more about tanks and transports to role the thunder in.

I personally play a hybrid of DoA and Mech. I use assault marines as my troops and a death company (with Chaplain) in a LR Redeemer in almost any game.

BA Death Company are great on the charge. Make sure you chare and not them. I do this with vehicles blocking LoS so Rage wont cause Problems and use vehicles to contain them until their first assault.

You may not find any BA tactic articles but there is plenty of advice given on these guys all over this forum.

My thoughts on BA are:

The two main things BA have going for them are DOA and fast vehicles. In general, pick one and focus on it. You can mix the two, and use units that don't take advantage of either (dreads, devastators, etc), but most of your army should revolve around either dropping in or being fast. The third good thing they have is easy access to FNP and Furious Charge, but that is so easy to get that its not something you really plan a list around.

Here is a quick run through of what I think of the different units.

HQ:

Librarians are probably your best HQ choice, with Shield, Sword and Blood Lance being the most useful powers IMO.

You can use other HQs, but most require lists to be designed around them, and are easy to mess up.

Honor guard cost a lot as they are, and cost even more if you take too many upgrades. They are not bad, really, but you have to be careful not to take too many upgrades.

Elites:

Sang Guard cost a lot. I'd generally stay away from them, but if you do use them, I’d be careful not to pile on too many upgrades.

Use Sanguinary Priests to make your marines hard to kill / actually dangerous in combat. FNP and Furious Charge are pretty amazing.

Chaplains are usually unnecessary. Rerolls are nice, but maybe not 100 points nice.

Terminators (of either type) do not benefit from DOA, but are still pretty solid choices in both foot and mech lists. TH/SS are your friends, and so are Cyclone Missile launchers on the shooty termies. If you want them to be extra scary and have some lightning claws, take a sang priest for the Furious Charge and FNP.

Furioso Dreads are powerful once they get close, but are slow compared to the rest of the BA army unless you make them librarians with wings of sang, which costs a lot, or bring a drop pod, meaning they are not worth bringing in every list.

Techmarines can take jumppacks and combi-meltaguns, which makes them somewhat useful to deepstrike down and melta a tank, but are probably not something you’d want in every list.

Sternguard are probably not worth taking most of the time. They cost a lot, and are only usable in mech lists. That being said, mass combi-meltas or flamers and their special ammo can be pretty nice. Just be careful not to go too crazy with the upgrades, as they die just as easily as regular marines.

Troops:

Assault Marines are generally your best troops choice. You can use scouts, or tacticals, and death company, but only if you have a really good reason to do so. These units should generally have a list built around them, and are definetly not almost "required" like assault squads are. Taking 5 or 10 with meltaguns and maybe a infernus pistol on the sarg are good ideas. Power Weapons and melta bombs on the sarg aren't a bad choice either if you have the points for it.

Keep in mind that if you are deep striking, the FAQ right now says that you cannot combat squad 10 man units that are being held in reserve. So, take 5 or 10, depending on what size groups you want.

If you are putting the assault squads in rhinos or razorbacks, it's generally better to take lots of 5 mans rather than a few 10 mans, even with combat squads. In a 2000 point list, i'd probably take 6 groups of at least 5 men.

Taking razorbacks with twin-linked heavy flamers are a good choice for your assault squads, since they can move 12" and still fine their flamers. Assault Cannons are good too, since you are fast enough to get side armor more often than not, but they also cost quite a bit more.

Rhinos work too, but might be better for tactical marines that can treat them as Multi-Melta bunkers.

I'm not a big fan of death company, as rage is annoying, they cost a lot, and die fairly easily to AP3 such as missiles, but they can still pack a punch, and can be ok if used correctly. The same goes for their dreads.

Fast:

All the bike options are good at delivering fast melta, but since most of the army is already good at that, they are not really something you see that often.

Baal Preds work pretty well in mech lists as long as you don’t already have too much anti-infantry, as that is mostly all they are good for. I’d take their special flamer thing or not take them at all, since a assault cannon razorback is just about as good and a lot cheaper.

Speeders are always a strong choice in mech lists, and pretty good in DOA lists as well.

Vanguard Vets cost a lot. They are not bad, but at 30 points a model with their jumppacks they are not always worth that arriving assault.

Heavy:

Devastators with missile launchers are a solid Heavy Support choice for both DOA and Mech lists, since they usually sit way back in cover, and can't be hurt too much before the jump pack units start dropping in.

Regular Preds are pretty good units in a Mech list.

Dreads with Autocannons are good in Mech lists.

I would generally avoid Land Raiders, and probably never deep strike them.

Storm ravens are pretty good, but i would rarely take just one. 2 is probably the minimum you want to take in a 2,000 point list, meaning that you will need to plan the whole list around them.

Vindicators are ok in mech lists, and made better by being fast.

Whirlwinds are junk. Probably the worst tank in the game. Seriously never take them.

So, basically, pick DOA or Mech/Foot.

You can put a few mech units in a DOA list, or a few DOA in a Mech list, but don’t expect them to live very long, as small deepstriking units die if left unsupported, and having just a few tanks means they get shot by all the enemy anti tank and die.

If you pick DOA, bring a lot of assault marines. Like, at least 30, and probably closer to 50 or 60. This is at 2000 points. You really almost can’t have too many of them. Give them cover with the librarian, and FNP with the Priests, and they will be pretty difficult to kill. Support them with Devastators, Terminators, or maybe Storm Ravens.

If you pick Mech, you have a lot of ways you can go. Sniper Scouts and Tacticals in rhinos are a good choice, but play about the same as regular SM. Assault marines in flamer razorbacks are the main blood angel-ish choice. I’d probably take 6 squads of 5 men in a razorback at 2000 points. Troops are important.

Support these with Preds, Devastators, Dreads, Terminators or Storm Ravens and you should be in pretty good shape.

You don't sound like you have a copy of the codex? That's the best place for basic descriptions and squad weapon upgrades.

Firstly DoA means descent of angels. This is a BA specific rule which allows BA units equipped with Jetpacks to only scatter 1D6" on their scatter roles and to re-roll failed or succesful reserve rolls. It increases the effectiveness of a Deep striking army basically allowing you to hopefully increase the likelihood of your troops coming down together.

The guy above covered it pretty comprehensively except for hybrid lists.

IMHO hybrid lists are viable, but difficult to play. You still need to have the basics down, Anti mech, Anti Horde, anti elites. Then you need to make sure they won't get eliminated on the turn they arrive, hybrid lists don't have much room for mistakes and depend much more on synergy.

I play DoA with Dreads in pods basically, dreads are an expensive way of covering an advance, but they can't be ignored and if you attack in unity with them using the pods as intervening models normally one will survive.

By then my 2nd wave, either bikes Baals or Vindicators are in range, my third wave, normally my RAS and anything else cleans up and contests.

FNP is amazing and I think it takes something like 40 AP4+ shots to force a leadership test.


Death Company can be your MVP or your worst unit, played well and kitted with a TH and a couple of power weapons, they can literally destroy anything any other unit in the game can offer. They are also great as a diversion and absorb a lot of AP3 and lower firepower no longer being fired at your scoring units or tanks. Or they can spend the game chasing some Eldar bikes around..

My thoughts on the BA units

HQ:
Libby's - Great choice and can go in almost any list
Main Chaplins - Good with DC, otherwise Libby can do the job and better
Named Characters - Really need a list built around them

Elite:
Sang Priest - A must in any DOA list, and I like them in most Mech list
Dreds - Libby Dreds are expensive and can be glanced to ineffective, since they can not take extra armor, a single glance can take them out of the fight for a full turn.
Furioso are nasty, you just got to get them to the fight.
Tech Maraine - Have not seen a use for him
Termies - Good choice, but don't go over board with points unless building a list around them.

Troops:
Assault Marines - Back bone of any list
Tacts - Can be good at sitting back and holding an objective, and providing long range fire support.
Scouts - An All scout list might be cool, but have not seen it done. One or to as an harrasment unit can be good.
Sang Guard- List them here as that is the only way you should field them. You waste them if you field them as elites. But that means you have to take Dante
DC- Great close combat unit that can be kitted out to go against anything. The only problem is directing them, which takes either a transport of cleaver use of vehicles.
DC Dreads - You have to use two troop choices to get one, and that means less scoring units. However when used right they can clear an objective in a matter of one turn. They are great fo killing troops, or the opponents Close combat units.

Fast - Baal's normally rule this slot. Either the assault cannon and Heavy Bolters, or the Flame cannon is a good choice.
Speeders - OK in my opinion, but better uses of the slots.
Bikes - Quick moving Melta delivery system, either in a Bike squad or an attack bike squad, the use is the same. Run up and melta the big tanks as soon as possible.

Heavy - In my opinion this is where your list is made
Vindies - Great choice, great for mobs, or for hunting tanks, if you run 1, then you should run 3.
Devs - Can be a solid choice to get "cheap" Missles and if they become fearless, then even better.
Preds - Fast Preds are worth the points, either dakka preds for crowd control, or Lascannon preds moving to get side shots, either way it is a great choice.
StormRavens - This is a good choice, but it has to fit the army. They are great at getting the DC, and all dreds to the front lines. The more the better as they do draw a lot of fire.

I strongly agree with the sentiment that you should pick a strategy (DoA, Mech) and commit to it.

To briefly summarize the results, here is a breakdown of units:

All-rounders - These fit in pretty much every type of list

Librarian
Sanguinary Priest
Assault Squad

Powerhouses - These are great units, but don't fit every list

Mephiston
Honor Guard
Furioso Dreadnought
Vanguard Veterans
Razorbacks (except for Heavy Bolter and TL-Lascannon, those are weaker choices)
Baal Predator
Predator
Vindicator
TL-Autocannon Dreadnought
Devastators

Semi-Competitive - These units can do well, but have weaknesses or don't fit the army as well

Reclusiarch
Dante
Assault Terminators
Scout Squad
Death Company
Death Company Dreadnought
Land Raider (all types)
Land Speeder
Attack Bikes
Stormraven

Everything else is weak. Notable examples:

Tactical Marines. Whatever you want them to do, some sort of Assault Marine squad can do it better, and often cheaper.
All special characters except Mephiston, Dante, maybe Lemartes. This includes Corbulo.
Captains. No force multiplier, have to pay for a decent weapon. Take a naked Librarian instead.

lukemcd wrote:You don't sound like you have a copy of the codex? That's the best place for basic descriptions and squad weapon upgrades.

I do have a copy of the codex, but it is very easy to load up on useless upgrade, equip you guys with weapons that server no purpose and such. I played many years ago, and were DC with jet packs were god in a BA force. Now there seems to be much less love for such a force, in addition 15pts a model for the jet packs makes them stupid expensive. I mean that is almost a 2nd guy.

Hench the reason I asked the opinions of others, since people here have been playing they can hopefully steer me away from what does not work.

Mauler. I too have been playing since 3rd Ed and it took me a while to realize that chappies are not the go to HQ choice any more. Sad but most armies are lead by lobbies but that goes against the fluff.

I'd give you my $.02 but then it would now just be redundant.

Do assault squads really work in a mech list; doesn't the rhino / razor lack of assault vehicle hurt? Also to get the most from assault sq you need 10 dudes and a sang priest, pretty much forcing you to use jump packs / Lrr / lrc / sr.
As inferior as tac squads are, seems to me they go better with mech BA.

The assault squads discount on transports is what makes them work. The theroy is you spam Razor backs with assault cannons and Lascannons, and never get out of the vehicle.

Personally, I don't like it to that is just my opinion.

rubicant99 wrote:Do assault squads really work in a mech list; doesn't the rhino / razor lack of assault vehicle hurt? Also to get the most from assault sq you need 10 dudes and a sang priest, pretty much forcing you to use jump packs / Lrr / lrc / sr.
As inferior as tac squads are, seems to me they go better with mech BA.

If you're looking for Assault Squads to do your dirty work in CC, you may be barking up the wrong tree.

As stated above, the reason BA mech armies take Assault Squads is the deep discount they get on transports.


If a CC monster unit is what you're looking for, you may want to try either A)Honor Guard or B)Assault Terminators with a Librarian and Sanguinary Priest. That latter being expensive, but 9 times out of 10 they'll get the job done.

Sorry for being a bit of a Necro, but no one has mentioned Sanguinor. Worth taking in a DOA list?

Just want to put it out there, Death Company are amazing!
I always have this combonation in my army. I dont think much can survive it.

Reclusiarch 130
10 death company with powerfist and power weapon 240
death company dreadnought with heavy flamer 145
stormraven with assault cannons, multi melta and hurricane bolters 230
Costs 745
Basically you get 32, str 4 bolter rounds (12 are twin linked), 4 twin linked str6 rending rounds, and then a blood strike missile and twinlinked multi melta for anti tank! Then on the assualt, just from the death company, you get 24 str 5 ws 5 attacks, 8, ws 5, str 5 power weapon attacks and 3, str 10, ws 5 power fist attacks all with reroll to hit and wound! Then you get the dreadnought with 5 attacks which can reroll to wound and the amazing blood talon abilty! Further more the death company have their 4+ feel no pain!

This thread is old, but I feel the need to comment on the above post.

The group of units listed above hits really hard, no question. That said, there are major drawbacks. First, everything is dependant on that Stormraven, which is not terribly durable, even with a 4+ save. This lack of durability forces you to reserve it if you aren't going first, and then you either wait for it to show up and face the enemy with at least 1/3 of your force missing, or reserve everything and risk coming in piecemeal. Second, once they get out of the Stormraven, you can't control the Death Company, and they are on foot as well. Finally, the Death Company is going to overkill pretty much everything it charges. It's nice if you can charge some massive scary deathstar, but many of them will still inflict damage back. If you charge something weaker in CC, you don't need 10 guys to kill them anyway.

For example, 10 diversified Nobz with a Painboy and +1 WS banner will take a little less than 10 wounds at I5 on the charge. That's great, but the problem is that you need 11 wounds to kill a single Nob, so they will all attack back. If they have 4 Power Klaws, almost half the DC squad is dead from the PKs alone. If there's a Warboss of Ghazkull along for the ride, you might lose the entire squad and not actually kill anything.

I also think giving a Death Company Bolters is risky. It helps make them more well-rounded, but actually firing the Bolters can horribly backfire if your opponent removes models to keep them out of charge range. It can also make it harder to multi-charge stuff even if you are still able to charge something.

Finally, some of the upgrades listed are silly. You can't rely on the Stormraven being able to shoot more than 1 weapon per turn. It needs to move to stay alive until the cargo is dropped off, and its best targets are vehicles, so Hurricane Bolters don't make sense. The Flamer on the DC Dread is risky for the same reason Bolters are on the DC.

Even with all that criticism, I still think a (toned down) version of the above can be great, but it doesn't fit in every army. The rule of thumb is that the optimal number of Stormravens is any (legal) number but 1.

So at the moment i have 10 DC but they are fully upgraded out e.g TH, PF, IP, and PW so they basically rip any thing in close combat but what should i do about there Rage ability?

I mostly stay elsewhere but sometimes search other sites. Elsewhere is normally Bolter and Chainsword, the Blood Angel forum where this is located:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=215235

Hope it helps.