Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm working on a Deathwing list with a few bikes (a squad of 6 with attack bike), and I'd really like to have it be scoring and have FNP, which taking Sammeal can give you. But he seems like a 205 point sink, and I'm wondering if its even vaguely worth it.

On a jet bike he's 3+/4++ and has a plasma cannon, EW, and 3 wounds, ST 5. Hardly inspiring compared to say a terminator squad.

He's NOT an independent character.

Does anyone know if either the bike squad he can take as a sort of command squad is joined to him, or if he gets the Jetbike ability to always move 6" in the assault phase? Either one would make him pretty survivable at least.

As a speeder he's Armor 14 (nice, Except that his rear armor is still 10 so he's toast in assault), has TL HB and TL Assault cannons. Even if he survives the whole game firing them, I don't see him making his points back most of the time.

Anybody had any luck with him, or ideas for tactics that make him viable?

Seriously, when I used to play Dark Angels I never left home without him. He can't join units (at least I don't think he can) but you use his speed to endure he gets into close combat quickly. If you want to use his Land Speeder, don't let the AV10 worry you. Yes he will probably get toast in assault, but that can be fixed by not letting him get assaulted, if his Land Speeder is in combat rather than using it's BS5 TL Assault Cannons and Heavy Bolters, then you're doing something wrong.

yeah, the speeder has plenty of speed to stay away from assaults.

Landspeeder Sammie is awesome...

TL-Assault Cannon at his BS?!?! Duuude... he can dish it just fine. I hated him when I played my orks...

To be fair.. if you take him, you "almost" have to build it as a dual-wing list to justify his cost and making bikers troops.

Valkyrie wrote: If you want to use his Land Speeder, don't let the AV10 worry you.

According to the Codex Samael's Landspeeder is AV 14 front and side so you only need to worry about assaults from the rear.

That is ravenwing for you. You run and hide with your vulnerable but killy troops.
Sammael on the jet bike is hard enough even if you went with the awesome all scout bike list he can hold his own by himself.

If you do not like Sammael then Ravenwing is not for you which is fortunate.

One thing that's nice is that Ravenwing attack bikes & speeders bought as part of bike squad are always scoring, even when bought in a fast attack slot. I'm theoryhammering, but I feel like three bikes with two meltas plus a scoring multimelta attack bike is probably the best ravenwing squad. What are you planning to do with the six man squad?

Artificer5150 wrote:

Valkyrie wrote: If you want to use his Land Speeder, don't let the AV10 worry you.

According to the Codex Samael's Landspeeder is AV 14 front and side so you only need to worry about assaults from the rear.

You always strike at the rear armor in close combat (unless it's a walker).

Darth Badguy wrote:One thing that's nice is that Ravenwing attack bikes & speeders bought as part of bike squad are always scoring, even when bought in a fast attack slot. I'm theoryhammering, but I feel like three bikes with two meltas plus a scoring multimelta attack bike is probably the best ravenwing squad. What are you planning to do with the six man squad?

OK i know the rule about scoring can read like that but does anyone play that scoring rule?

You use 6 bikes to access scoring landspeeders and have 6 for the 'command squad.'
This gives two choices with or without scoring landspeeders, though it is fun to have just one such speeder to have a huge target and take pressure off typhoons.

I use the scoring speeder rule but only on the troop choice bike units. Howecer I never take fast attack bike units cause the FA slots are filled with typhoons.

I liked the look of the scoring speeder, except that its 100 points for a HB and assault cannon - very overpriced. I've never been able to bring myself to buy it. I've been running 2 typhoons, 3 bikes, and (scoring) attack bike. Melta everywhere. The attack bike nearly won 2nd round "ardboyz" for me, so I'm kind of fond of it. In any game with solid terrain to hide behind it rocks.

Accersitus wrote:

Artificer5150 wrote:

Valkyrie wrote: If you want to use his Land Speeder, don't let the AV10 worry you.

According to the Codex Samael's Landspeeder is AV 14 front and side so you only need to worry about assaults from the rear.

You always strike at the rear armor in close combat (unless it's a walker).

You also always hit skimmers on 6's though.

Isn't that rule gone? The editions run together in my mind.