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I been playing Tyranids for about 8 months now. Some may say i am to new to know better. i have seen most peoples anser to any Tyranid lits is the above.
People have become so use to a play style they forget the other options. For tyranids the 2 tervagon 6+ Hive gaurd list with M. Sporing Zoans have become a standard at most tournaments. So much if you don't have them you are considered uncompetitive.

Don't get me wrong all these units are good in there way. Spamming them just gives tyranids a one dimminsional feel and look.

Over the last 3 months i deside to start playing with out them. Going cold turkey. My finding where amazing to say the lest. I found a new favert unit in raveners ( with guns and without). With out having all my str 8 & 10 shooting I had to find a way to handle armor. my answer turned up in not so much geting it to expode or reck but to make it toothless. even with IG 14+ list i been able to pull out wins with a good average. This with out the nets required 6+ hive gaurd.

I know that some list are considered optimal (though math hammer). This way show anti tank shooting is better. As this may be true, it also takes the out unit combos that work well. People are just giving the Venomthorp the respect it truly deserves for example. Ymgarl genestealers and the doom in a pod are great counters to Long Fang spam/

I run the doom in a spore and 2 units of 7 Ymgarls 2000 point list. I have yet to have issues with long fangs. of course the rest of my army working with those units is the key.

So has anyone else found that they don't need Hive Guard or tervagons at all or as much?

I axm competitive and I win a ton with a tyranid prime HQ, 3-6 zoans in pod, 3-6 hive guard, a single tervigon troops with a 20-30 devguant squad as well as other gribblies and I still demolish easily. It is all on target priority and deployment.

I play my standard games with only one Zoanthrope, and usually do well in most games. It could also be the fact that I load up with 2 Trygon Primes. My troops usually includes a couple hordes of little gribblies (either the shooty or assaulty variety)

I am also somewhat a fan of a shooting weapon that the internet has called useless: Spinefists. My time playing guard has shown me the power of throwing a mountain of dice in the shooting phase, and so i have tried to do the same in my nid army.

While some people may not like the venomthrope, i loved the model, bought one and now it is almost a staple in any of my lists, it makes my little hordes just that much more survivable.

In short, yeah there are a good deal more builds than the internet prescribed tournament Tervigon spam lists.

How do you keep your raveners alive?

Seems like you are tailoring your lists in all honesty. I fail to see how this list would do very well in tournaments because your elite slots seem to vary quite alot, on one hand you have ALRIGHT anti tank and on the other you have none, the standard lists are good all-round and that is why they are played, apart from jays list ofc.

Dave_Nz wrote:Seems like you are tailoring your lists in all honesty. I fail to see how this list would do very well in tournaments because your elite slots seem to vary quite alot, on one hand you have ALRIGHT anti tank and on the other you have none, the standard lists are good all-round and that is why they are played, apart from jays list ofc.

How I'm i tailoring?

What list are you talking about??

I take a all-comers lists. I don't change depending what army's I face.

The standared list is a good all-around list. What i was trying to get accross is that it is not the only one in the Tyranid codex. It is just the only one people seam to know.

I have leared that the tervagon and hive gaurd are not needed to win games. they are both great units, but are not the only way to go with Tyranids. 85% of advice is to add more of one or both of these units. Which is a shame as there are other units that are great when worked in as well. Problem is that most players don't know how to use them effectively.

sure, that is why lictors get play in tournements, oh wait, no because the best tyranid players in USA know less then you...


now i understand.

Dave_Nz wrote:sure, that is why lictors get play in tournements, oh wait, no because the best tyranid players in USA know less then you...


now i understand.

That's not what he's saying.

Basically, as I read it, the OP is saying how what are considered to be the 2 most competitive Tyranid choices (Hive Guard and Tervigons) aren't NEEDED to make a competitive list.
The vast majority of net-lists would include at least one of these units (understandably), but the OP is trying to add more variety to Nid lists by highlighting other competitive options.
For this I applaud him.

Then again, Ymgarls being competitive is nothing new, nor are (albeit to a lesser known extent) Raveners being competitive.

Of course the best Tyranid players use arguably the best units (Hive Guard & Tervigons), but what the OP seems to be trying to say is that they're not NEEDED and that other units should be given a chance.

I'll point out however that many players don't actually consider Zoanthropes a particularly good choice it seems, which I fully agree with.

Thank you Just Dave for clearing up what i was saying. (need to work on my clarity of thought )

I was not saying you can't have tervagon or hive guard just that they are not needed in every list.

85% of the advice on Tyrnids list is to add more of side units even if the have two of them arleady. Hive guard gets this the most with some people going so far as to say it is the only good Choice in the elite slot. This is not just local but on the web as well. Good players know there are other options in elite that are just as good for different style lists.



The net list I have seen at tournment most of the time have Hive guard spam ,all three slots, and at lest 2-3 tervagons the rest spice added to flavor.

Most of the times I hear how broken SW are by most of these player in reference to JOTW killing their tervagons. A different list build would limit that weakness with the tervagon. Admittedly these are probably not the best players but these are the people I see playing Tyranids at GT"s and local tourneys. Very few Tyranids players at that... ( that's another story)

Dave_Nz wrote:sure, that is why lictors get play in tournaments, oh wait, no because the best tyranid players in USA know less then you...


now i understand.

Dave_Nz::: You seam t be getting heated up and i don't really understand why...? Lictors are a decent unit that could be worked into a list. I don't know i never tried.

As for what the Best tyranid player in the USA or the World play i have no idea.. In fact i don't know who that would be personally. Do you??






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Branderic wrote:How do you keep your raveners alive?

For the most part I by having things that are more scary then them.

For example what would you shoot at coming in from a reserve roll? One of to trygons, the doom that close to your troops, tranfex, lage 20 unit of genestlears with a brood lord, Super hormagants, Winged hive tyrant, or one of two units of raveners.

All of these units can and do nasty thing to armys if left uncheaked. If the do shoot the raveners great they are not shooting something else.