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Hello, dakkaites, I'd like to present you my last all-infantry IG list. I've used it just a few times and, while it has score pretty decent results, I think it needs your illuminated advices.

HQ:
CCS (plasma pistol, 4x plasma, Astropath, carapace) 145
CCS (plasma pistol, 4x plasma, carapace) 115

ELITE:
5 Stormtroopers (2x melta) 105
5 Stormtroopers (2x melta) 105
5 Stormtroopers (2x melta) 105

TROOPS:
1st Platoon:
- PCS (4x melta) 70
- 5x Infantry squad (flamer, pw, melta bombs, commissar w/pw) 550
- 2x priests w/eviscerator 120
- 2x SWS (3x flamer) 100
- 3x HWS (3x autocannons) 225

2nd Platoon:
- PCS (4x melta) 75
- 5x Infantry Squads (autocannons) 300
- 1x SWS (3x flamer) 50
- 3x SWS (3x lascannons) 315

Veterans (shotguns, 3x melta, demolitions) 130
2510

For 2000, I'd drop 1 unit of stormies, 1 SWS, 2 IS and all the autos from the second platoon, 3 commissars and one priest.

The idea behind this force is to use the single 57-men blob (or two of 34 and 23) as an advancing shield, both to soak up shooting (I'd keep them as spread out as possible, to minimise template and blast damage) and to tie (and possibly destroy) advancing cc units in combat. 2 SWS and the veterans, as well as maybe one CCS and one PCS would be there too, shielding behind or in the middle of the blob, ready to advance to do the dirty work, while meltabombs and priest are there to ensure walkers don't entangle the whole mob. HWS will form a base of fire back in the rear, possibly in cover or on a elevated position, pounding advancing enemy vehicles/MCs/Heavy Infantry. The PCS are there, too, to both issue orders and cover the rear vs outflankers or deepstrikers, aided by 1 PCS (2 and 1or 2 SWSs, as well as the melta-demo veterans vs DoA, drop pods, DE with Raiders spam or WP, trygon and raveners or other similar armies so rich in these pesky units).
The second platoon would either be blobbed in two groops for objective keeping or spread out to act as a suicide trap for cc units (they should break and run or die pretty soon to every cc unit, providing juicy, undefended targets for heavy fire or power blob charging retaliation) or as fixed shields or deep-strike interdictors in the backline while firing pot-shots with their autocannons.
The stormtroopers will be deep-striking (with the Astropath's help), suicide units to melt the back armour of heavy vehicles or to destroy indirect fire artillery behind cover.
At any rate, 188 models firing 10 plasma (on rapid), 17 melta, 9 lascannon and 28 autocannon shots, as well as 9 flamer templates and a couple hundreds lasgun shots is, at least, a view to raise the hearts of every imperial commander on the battlefield.

What do you think? Can the thing work?

In theory, maybe. You have the numbers, you have the models, and thats about it. So in theory it might work. I think it all depends on if you can blow up some transports, and if you don't go up against double lash. You're biggest downfall of the list is your lack of movement.

I think the concept of your list is perfectly valid. Too many people only see the IG as a mechanized force, and while they are good at that, the infantry assault wave backed by heavy weapons also works well for it. I don't see any major problems, but I am curious about the Priests. They only thing the seem to offer, other than their massive chainswords, is the ability to re-roll to hit in close combat. Has that really just made a difference in your experience? If not, I'd say drop them and get either a squad of Ratlings (to pop the heads of HQs and MCs) or Sly Marbo (who can tie up an opposing army better than a platoon of Stormtroopers!). If they seem to work, that's fine, I just hope you're not getting into CC too often. There's just no way to make the IG good at it.

Thank you for the feedback; I think you are both very right.
Mobility isn't much of an issue, as I don't know how non-fleet infantry could get much anyway, so I have to do with what little I have. Could you advise me onto what to change to achive a little more speed, without going mech?
As for Marbo, I think you are perfectly right. I could drop one unit of stormies and at least one priest (they are not that effective for their rerolls to hit, but I have a sacred fear of combat walkers (read: blood talons dread or 4-dccw ork dread, as well as the thrice-damned ironclads) and big cc MC), for Marbo and... I don't know, maybe another vet squad with meltas? Or maybe a Lord Commissar with PF, melta bombs and carapace? Or, Khorne forbids, 9 rough riders with melta bombs or another small platoon?

For large foot lists I think that orders and movement are the key.

I would drop all the heavy weapons from the infantry squads and blob them up - only 1 commissar and 1 priest needed per blob. Power weapons all round. Power blob can then move each turn - and run if there's nothing really to shoot.

For movement as well I would look at Al Raheem in one platoon so it can outflank.

PCS meltas are good as they can sit behind the blobs and if anyone tries to tankshock then it dies next turn.

The single vet squad doesn't really add much here, I would drop it to pay for upgrades to the platoons.

For orders, the key is the HWS. Either run a Lord Commissar to babysit them for his leadership bubble or run Kell in the CCS. With a full foot list at 2,500 this is maybe the perfect time to get Creed into a list as well. 4 orders and you then have the option for an entire blob to go to ground only to get up in your next turn and move/shoot as normal.

So you say drop the autos in the IS, drop three commissars from the first blob and tool the second platoon's ISs with two commissars, PWs, flamers and melta bombs?
That would undoubtly double the amount of powerblobbiness in the army, giving it much more of a punch in cc, but my main problem would be with deepstrikers and transports, as I'd turn suicide stopping units in costly frontline cc units, that wouldn't probably drop fast enough to give me a clear shot on their assaulters in the backfield, in the same time losing much of my anti-trasport fire (do you think I could be fine anyway with only 18 autocannon shots?).
About the vets, I could maybe take them away in exchange for a plain Lord Commissar (but I'm alwayse afraid, when using T 3 multi wound ICs) and maybe Marbo? Or maybe Creed? No IC problem there.
For Al'Rahem, the only problem would be I'd have to rethink HWS distribution, being unable to group them around Creed or the Lord and losing turns of shooting as they'll have to outflank with him. Maybe I should divide my forces in three platoons, sending the cc-tooled ISs and the flamer SWS in with him, while two blobs and the HWS stay put and sit on objectives...

In a foot list Creed is pretty much mandatory for his 4 orders per turn. Orders can really make Guard awesome sometimes.

Your problem is you're on foot and don't have a lot of ranged shooting, which means you're moving forward getting shot to pieces and not having enough offence.

I would drop one CCS and carapace armour and plasma pistol from the other.

Storm Troopers are ok suicide melta.

Platoons should have flamers if in a Chimera or else they don't get far. If on foot I'd probably take a autocannon and have them static.

You want your Infantry Squads to counter charge so add in a autocannon and wait for people to come to you. You want to out gun people so they come to smash your face in and then tarpit them and start cutting them down with mass power weapons.

Here's a gunline list I wrote on my blog sometime ago, it might be of interest: http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2010/11/army-lists-imperial-guard-gunline-2000.html only changes I'd do it switch all heavy support to Manticores.

LastCameTheRaven wrote:So you say drop the autos in the IS, drop three commissars from the first blob and tool the second platoon's ISs with two commissars, PWs, flamers and melta bombs?
That would undoubtly double the amount of powerblobbiness in the army, giving it much more of a punch in cc, but my main problem would be with deepstrikers and transports, as I'd turn suicide stopping units in costly frontline cc units, that wouldn't probably drop fast enough to give me a clear shot on their assaulters in the backfield, in the same time losing much of my anti-trasport fire (do you think I could be fine anyway with only 18 autocannon shots?).
About the vets, I could maybe take them away in exchange for a plain Lord Commissar (but I'm alwayse afraid, when using T 3 multi wound ICs) and maybe Marbo? Or maybe Creed? No IC problem there.
For Al'Rahem, the only problem would be I'd have to rethink HWS distribution, being unable to group them around Creed or the Lord and losing turns of shooting as they'll have to outflank with him. Maybe I should divide my forces in three platoons, sending the cc-tooled ISs and the flamer SWS in with him, while two blobs and the HWS stay put and sit on objectives...

Transports should not be a fear for you - all those autocannons, as well as the melta and occassional las.

On Al'Raheem and HWS distribution, rememebr you can have 5 HWS in one platoon - so fill the non-outflanking platoon and you only have 1 to worry about.

If DS/outflank is a concern, then there is nothing to stop you wrapping a 20 man blob squad around the HWsquads. With stubbown and power wpns they should hold up any assualters for a turn or two by whcih time the HWS have hopefully done their job and some flamers can come back and clean up what's left ...

Lord Comm can attach to one squad and provide leadership bubble for all the others, or even join the screening blob squad. You will not be immune to DS units but if you can hold them up while the rest of your army runs through the rest of their army.

With over a 100 soldiers on the table, most of whom are stubborn and in units full of power weapons (and a few grenades), you can pretty much swamp the centre of the table and control the game.

rememebr you can have 5 HWS in one platoon

Sir, you have proved once again one of the most obvious truth of this world: that I am a complete and utter moron. For some reason, I was sure you could only take three... go figure why.

Following all your advices, I concoted this new list:



or this


the Creed + Lord Commissar combo should compensate the loss of auto and lascannons, but the second plasma CCS is hard to replace... As suggested, I exchanged 1 suicide Stormtrooper squad with Marbo.

give your sarges power weapons (they have 3 attacks)
only one or two commisar per blob

creed is nice but without a chimera he has a target on him, if you use him make good use of the +2 cover save order and get back in the fight, this can make your rushing blob nearly invulnerable but if you miss an order, you are in deep do do. I would give him sniper rifles or grenade launchers, since plasma makes him a huge target.

outflanking 1 or 2 blobs is a good idea since infantry guard's weakness is blasts and you can cut down deployment options.

I like rough riders as a counterassault unit.

give your sarges power weapons (they have 3 attacks)

They already have

- 5x Infantry squad (flamer, pw, melta bombs, 4x commissar w/pw)

I only inserted more commissars to max pw attacks.
I know plasma guns will make Creed a juicy target, but I intend to keep him in the backfield to give orders to the HWS, where multiple plas could be a saviour, should his bubblewrapping 20-men blob fall to ds or outflanking units (without Heavy support, the blobs would die to armoured vehicles pretty fast); furthermore, maybe being in the only armoured vehicle in the entire army could not be so good for his health... On foot I could have better possibilities to hide him in cover behind terrain or other troops, while target saturation with lots of light infantry targets should (or at least I hope so) scramble the plans of melta- and mech-heavy opponents, putting them on the wrong foot.
My main doubt is whether to stick the Lord commissar with the blobs (in which case I'd drop the plasma pistol for a pw or pf) or keep him with creed for the leadership bubble for ordering the HWS.

I would think about trading the storm trooper squads for veteran squads with three meltas. That extra melta can be a big difference as well as having more bodies on the table. Also if it were me I would drop the Carapace from the command squad and make the veteran squads have three plasmaguns instead. you would even have 10pts left after all that. The lord commissar's plasma pistol and carapace could also be dropped probably giving you another 20pts, which would give you the points to turn some autocannons into lascannons as you really don't need more anti infantry in the army but do need some more anti tank power

The main use for the stormies would be to suicidially deep strike and fire on the back armour of indirect fire artillery unit, which my army have (apart from marbo) no defence against.
The carapace on the plasma ccs and commissar (should I leave him with Creed, ensuring maximum orders effect with his leadership bubble) is only there to make them a little more durable (both to defend Creed and avoid over-heat mass-suicide, which has always been a long, tragic tradition of my plasma troops... I like to think of them like misguided samurais, committing seppuku with their own weapons long before the fighting starts).
As for the autos, I think I could change those in the third platoon to las, dropping some flamers to compensate...

If this is a fun list that you are just playing for a night of rolling dice it should be fun.

For a tournament list there is one glaring downside to what you have concocted, a time limit. As with green tide lists I see many players just not having time to move that many models, shoot, then perform assaults. If you are going to bring it to a tournament setting I would suggest a large amount of practice in order to make the time limits.

Good luck.

Isn't making your opponent cry in frustration a victory i itself?
Obviously, I'm not a tournament guy. I mean, I (mostly) play for fun and just wanted some feedback on the list, not to make it a super-competitive, all destroying army of DOOM.
Anyway, I usually use trays for movement (nothing fancy, just a rubberized piece of semi-rigid cardboard, but I'm bielding one with foam right now) and a bucketful of dice for shooting and combat. I can assure you it's pretty fast (unless I play with one of my buddies, who uses green tide himself... we generally prepare to use two days in those cases) and both my troops and the enemy's tend to be ground down in numbers in short time.
Should I ever decide to bring it to a tourneament (in the few cases I did, I used necrons, tyranids or mixed mechanized-foot guard), I promise I'll have some practice and wear wrist-guards for my own (and my opponent's) good.
Another major downside of a similar list is its cost, money- and time-wise. I solved the first part through both third-party miniatures usage (while I heavily use both GW and, even more, FW), while the second is a bit more of a problematic point, as I prefer to convert EVERY SINGLE DAMN UNIT.

Sorry I must have read it improperly, it looked like you were buying 5 sommisars.

I did. More commissars= more pw attacks. Well, maybe more infantry would just be more cost- effective. Let's try this again:


Same flavour, now with 2 less commissars, 1 more fully-tooled up infantry squad and some autocannons swapped for lascannons. For a grand-total of 208 men, 10 plasma, 24 autocannon, 9 lascannon, 15 melta, 12 flamer and a ton of lasgun shots every turn! As well as, on the charge, potentially 48 pw attack (6 at S6), 5 venomous attacks wounding on a 2+ and about three-and-a-half hundred normal attacks, most of them rerollable.
Do you think I should give double blobs (22- and 32-men strong, respectevely) to Al'Raheem platoon and the mega 41-men one to advance from the deployment zone or should I do the opposite?
Or even field both forces as two mega-blobs?

Wow! converting all those guys would make my eyes bleed. Good on you sir.

I like the idea though the downfall of guard blobs are high t assults, i've had 50 man blobs get in cc with t 6 or higher models for 1/2 the game, so you need someone who can give them FC like straken or creed. I only ever take 1 priest for the re-roll but 65 points for a str 6 pf = fail for points value and he's a ic so can be targeted easy.

dinnermeat wrote:I like the idea though the downfall of guard blobs are high t assults, i've had 50 man blobs get in cc with t 6 or higher models for 1/2 the game, so you need someone who can give them FC like straken or creed. I only ever take 1 priest for the re-roll but 65 points for a str 6 pf = fail for points value and he's a ic so can be targeted easy.

That's why if I have 50 I split them into 30 and 20 man blobs. That way a small unit can't tie up all your troops. The 30 man unit can tarpit them and the 20 man unit can go off and annoy something else. The is a real economy of scale in blob squads - the increase in efficiency from 10 to 20 is huge, 20 to 30 pretty large, but less so from 30 to 40 and then 40 to 50.

Yeah, that's what the single squads w/out pw and commissars in the first list were for: suicide shields. Hide in the big blob and, should danger of being charged befall the poor, low-strength guardsmen, move in front on them, spreading out on a large front to prevent the enemy from multi-charging the blob as well. The enemy cc monsters have two options: charge, shred the poor bloody things in their combat phase and get ready for a face-full of rapid-fire plasma and melta from the SWS, CCS and PCS following the blob in my shooting phase, or bring their fat hindquarters back out of range, removing the charge threat for another turn. Couple it with Incoming! to survive assault weapons fire, if needed (well, not much you can do against flamers or similar...).
The only problem is with troops with a high threat range, capable of outmanouvring you and bite you back, avoiding your silly trap, but, with a few exceptions (winged DPs and HTs come to mind,as well as Kranak and the Bloodcrushers...), high T creatures and walkers tend not to be very manouvrable. Anyway, with a few more squads you could bubblewrap your platoon (as strange as that could seem...).
Obviously a small stubborn 20-men blob is even good to stick in, engaging and entangling a powerful enemy for a few turns, as you suggest. Obviously, it won't work very well for the health of your poor IGs vs something with a high number of attacks (I'm speaking to you, damned Blood Talons Death Company Dreadnought...), expecially on KPs.

On this topic, can you still give cover to small squads intermingling them with a blob (as long as you don't try to use the mutual cover trick)?

This is why i play mech gaurd shoot it one it comes outta deep strike

Well, massed foot guard tends to be a bad surprise for many armies, expecially low-count and anti-tank heavy ones. What can you do with your 20 melta/dark lances/lascannons, when all you can shoot are paper-thin guardsmen? The objective is total saturation and spreading the troops out helps you against the template and blasts of all but the tailored lists.