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Having read many batreps, I have come to the realization that timed rounds seem to contribute to large amounts of drama and speculating about what just 5, 10 or 15 minutes would have made a difference in how a game turns out. This seems to invariably leave at least one, if not both, players lamenting about the the issue of time.

Now for some questions:

Are there any organized tournaments out there not based on timed rounds? What I mean by that is are there any tourneys that let the rounds play out as they will either ending on a specific turn per scenario or randomly per the BRB or scenario where the round doesn't just end at 2 hours, 2.5 hours, ect.

If so, how has that worked at those events, both logistically and how smoothly it ran.

If not, have any tried it in the past and have found fault with it?

The reason I ask is for a few reasons. One, accusations of slow playing and the like would be pointless in an event based only off of game turns. Two, despite individuals' best efforts, some people are going to be awarded/punished for the speed at which they play in a timed event. Thirdly, timed events discourage certain lists from ever seeing play, competitiveness notwithstanding, such as high model count lists of IG, Orks, and Nids.

As always your thoughts are welcome.

Just like some tourneys don't have enough terrain, I also feel some tourneys don't give enough time and try to cram too many games into one day. 2 hours for 2000+ games is unreasonable. Points have gone up, time has gone down. And just like sparse terrain, some armies unfairly benefit from shorter games, are better at playing faster turns (because pushing a pillbox is faster than moving 12 models) and some armies lack staying power and punch hard turn 1 and 2 and want the game to end.

Personally:

2 hours = 1700 or less
2:15 hours = 1700 - 2000
2:30 hours = 2000 - 2500
2:45 hours = 2500+

Also, I dislike the myth that people should expect equal time. This game is not based or balanced around equal time and so many phases are interactive that my turn is never just my turn. Unlike bloodbowl where my turn is solely my actions and my opponent could literally walk away from the table and not impact my ability to play, 40k is interactive and we share shooting and assault phases so penalizing one player for time because a large amount of assault happens on his watch is fundamentally unfair.

I am glad turn timer clocks have not infiltrated competitive play and I hope it never does as it has no valid place. All the TO needs to do is announce the time every 30 minutes and most people keep on task.

I guess no one else agrees with my premise or has anything else to say on the matter. I do agree with nkelsch on every point except possibly the times for games unless they were meant more of a guideline than anything else.

I know that it is rather early and certainly nothing hard about any of the rumors floating around 6th edition, but from what has been rumored is even half true, it seems to me that games will take an even longer time and be even more of a concern for tournament players.

I think one of the reasons you probably haven't gotten many responses is because the concept you're putting forth is fairly absurd IMHO. Not to be negative at all. I know you're trying to think outside the box for solutions against 'slow-playing' but the problem is, timed rounds are absolutely essential towards creating an event that people can actually attend and enjoy.

Now, while I personally feel that T.O.'s tend to not allow nearly enough time in their rounds per the points of games played, I still recognize that having some sort of time limit on rounds is unquestionably essential.

Because even if a timed round is waaaay more than 95% of the players need, when you have timed rounds that means you also have a schedule (when each round will start) and that means when players finish early they can go get some food, take a nap, etc, but they still know when they have to be back by for the start of the next round.

If you remove that construct and basically say that the rounds last as long as they need to last for all games to finish, then players who finish are unable to leave to do anything else because they have no idea when the next round will start. So in essence they become prisoners stuck waiting for the next round, unable to get food, take a nap, etc.

So in short, timed rounds and a schedule are absolutely 100% essential for a tournament. They must exist or else nobody will attend your tournament as nobody wants to wait around hours on end not knowing when the next round of a tournament will start.

I may point out since most of the players in my country are new to wargaming, sometimes we take like 3 hours to play a 1,000 pts game. Too many details to consider for every race. I hope we could get faster in the future.

I think one thing that could be done to help with the time limit is posting the next round pairings ASAP but not officially starting a round until 15-20 minutes have passed after posting. This isnt always possible, but I find a good 15-20 minutes are waisted handing over lists, waiting to look at the pairings, deciding deployment zones, things like that, and then there is only 90 minutes to get the game in.

I dont know the most efficient way to do this, nor can it help having the opponent who shows up late/last minute, but if you get some of those pre-game things out of the way so the armies are deployed/near deployed when the 2 hour clock begins the game can actualy go fairly smooth.

Specially is you play armies like orks and Imperial Guard with hundreds of minis in the table. When playing orks I try to deploy them fast as possible.

Capt. Camping wrote:I may point out since most of the players in my country are new to wargaming, sometimes we take like 3 hours to play a 1,000 pts game. Too many details to consider for every race. I hope we could get faster in the future.

Capt. Camping wrote:Specially is you play armies like orks and Imperial Guard with hundreds of minis in the table. When playing orks I try to deploy them fast as possible.

First off, welcome to Dakka and I'm glad to hear that you are getting new wargamers involved with 40k in your country. With practice, experience, and time I'm sure that your times will improve, but it is good to take time to learn the game and details for every race early on.

Being an IG player myself, I have found myself even with my best efforts being pressed for time for movement especially with 200+ and sometimes even 300+ models on the board.

Norbu the Destroyer wrote:I think one thing that could be done to help with the time limit is posting the next round pairings ASAP but not officially starting a round until 15-20 minutes have passed after posting. This isnt always possible, but I find a good 15-20 minutes are waisted handing over lists, waiting to look at the pairings, deciding deployment zones, things like that, and then there is only 90 minutes to get the game in.

I dont know the most efficient way to do this, nor can it help having the opponent who shows up late/last minute, but if you get some of those pre-game things out of the way so the armies are deployed/near deployed when the 2 hour clock begins the game can actualy go fairly smooth.

That is something else that I didn't even think of when it comes to what actually uses up te game time. At least in my limited tournament experiences, I have found that round times start as soon as postings are up thus precious time is consumed meeting your opponent(s), exchanging lists, determining terrain (if it is not already explained in rules/scenario packets), and deciding deployment zones and first turn (again if not already specified). Yes these are all aspects of the game yet can take up an amount of time that I feel is meant for actual game play as opposed to "administrative" details.

Instead of having n time limits as I originally posted (although I would still like to try it for a tourney at least once) having set round posting times and actual game start times with 10-30 mins in between would possibly help with the issue of time.

Your concept wouldn't work for the reasons yakface pointed out. Also, some players play exceptionally slow and some players, very fast. Your system essentially punishes everyone while rewarding the outlyer. A system should benefit the largest number of people in order to be succesful.

As yakface said, the easiest solution is to lower the points levels of events as I think we will do for the bay area open, next year.

I run my greentide once in a while (more a mekbash list most times ) and always get looked at like the mini's were used to club baby seals when i set them up. Some players start drumming their fingers on the table edge about 5 seconds into my turn, muttering 'come on..come on for feth's sake..'' even if i'm moving like i'm on pure adrenaline and 20 pots of coffee.

I am generally strung out on energy drinks with my orks, to keep up with moving them like The Flash playing 40K , and have been given 0 sportsmanship for just showing up with more than 50 models (the guy actually told me, in front of the TO, that that's why he did it, because it's automatically 'slow-playing' for advantage...

I think it had more to do with the fact that my Ladz turned his tricked out 30 model plus tanks marine force into so much chunky-salsa (served in it's out foil trays.. ), but i've run into the attitude too many times..

A good player can play a horde army in a reasonable time frame, no problem. You should not be penalized for bribing the list you want to play. Hordes look great, too!