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how advance could a Feudal world can be? if backstory said like the most advanced feudal world have a good deal of gunpowder weapons.

this could possibly mean that each feudal lord could have a formation of Harquebusiers, Musketeers, and Fusiliers. but how advance they could possibly be?
1. Firearms operation systems. matchlock, flintlock, percussion lock, repeater, or AK series ??
2. Military formations. how advance could it be? Renaissance? 7 years war. Napoleonics, or American Civil War?
3. instances of the Renaissance/Napoleonics style IG regiments.

Feudal system is just a form of government. You can have a Feudal World that is super advanced.
If they're in the IG then they get the advanced weapons that the guard has such as tanks, lasguns etc. If they are a low tech world then any army commander is going to use the most advanced weapons of the time. If that means muskets then all his soldiers will have muskets, there were no knights in shining armour and units of archers fighting in the Napoleonic Wars, they were all equipped with the modern weapons of the day.
That's why small numbers of Europeans were able to conquer large parts of Africa and the Americas because the Europeans had modern weapons like guns and the locals were using spears and arrows.

cadbren wrote:Feudal system is just a form of government. You can have a Feudal World that is super advanced.
If they're in the IG then they get the advanced weapons that the guard has such as tanks, lasguns etc. If they are a low tech world then any army commander is going to use the most advanced weapons of the time. If that means muskets then all his soldiers will have muskets, there were no knights in shining armour and units of archers fighting in the Napoleonic Wars, they were all equipped with the modern weapons of the day.
That's why small numbers of Europeans were able to conquer large parts of Africa and the Americas because the Europeans had modern weapons like guns and the locals were using spears and arrows.

You are pretty much answering the question with no knowledge on the actual fluff.

You cannot have a Fuedal World which is advanced in tech. The term Fuedal as used by the Adaptus Terra does not mean a type of goverment it means a class of inhabited world that has its own tax bracket for tithes. This is clearly described by GW.

Fuedal worlds range from medievil to flintlock level of black powder tech, they are usually controlled off world by Govenor (could be on a moon base or an orbiting station) with agent from different branchs on the world to ensure production is high and heresy is low. Most fuedal worlds have little understanding of what the IoM is and their place in the universe, other than that they give tithes (wood, coal, food, metal etc) to give praise to the God Emperor.

So...

military formations of the most advanced Feudal worlds. was it renaissance (Pikemen and Musketeer formation, along with Knights wearing a full plate armor). or Napoleonics (Line infantry supplied with flintlock "Fusils" and bayonet, the heavy cavalry was Cuirassier instead of Knights)

and is there any record of canon-mounted belfry or "Da Vinci" style tank existed or used in those worlds? both siege gears were forerunner to modern tanks.

My mistake, I forgot that Feudal World was a classification. The answer is that Renaissance era armies is as advanced as you get.

Napoleonic era is too advanced so no flintlocks. Matchlocks are as advanced as they get.
The fluff suggests that IG aren't recruited from these worlds anyway.

It may be that some ancient relics of technology exist so maybe a local warlord has a group of "magicians" who are armed with really old lasguns or similar.

Read 'Sons of Dorn' it isn't great but the world where the 3 main characters are recruited from is pretty much what would call a feudal world.

Feudal Worlds are just planets still stuck in the Middle Ages. The PDF probably hast he medieval to gunpowder age armies you describe, but they don't contribute anything to the Imperial Guard to my knowledge, though I guess it's possible that the recruits are snatched up and trained/equipped in modern warfare.

The Governor and Astartes garrison live in the orbital defense station usually.

cadbren wrote:My mistake, I forgot that Feudal World was a classification. The answer is that Renaissance era armies is as advanced as you get.

Napoleonic era is too advanced so no flintlocks. Matchlocks are as advanced as they get.
The fluff suggests that IG aren't recruited from these worlds anyway.

It may be that some ancient relics of technology exist so maybe a local warlord has a group of "magicians" who are armed with really old lasguns or similar.

Why can't DM just make a contract with those local lords. raise a whole IG regiment on the existing resources (and have commissars trio as Imperial representative)? those dudes guardin' those local lords ... aka. Knights, were recruited and trained in the same age as SM trainees.

what are the shortcomings of feudal world originated IG regiments? suppose that they got hi-tech weapons supplied by off-worlders.
if much of them were conscripts or "unreliable" militia (like WHFB Empire Freikorps or Brettonian MAA). many IG regiments .. including the highly disciplined Mordian Iron Guard. did use local militia as either Aux or part of the regiments (3rd war of Armageddon)

I'm not sure if there are any instances sayin' that there were 'Home Grown Admechs', a guild of 'mages' operating the hi-tech stuffs but NOT belong to ANY Admech priestly order.

I'm not sure if there are any instances sayin' that there were 'Home Grown Admechs', a guild of 'mages' operating the hi-tech stuffs but NOT belong to ANY Admech priestly order.

These would be considered here-teks, and would consign themselves (and their world) to the doom of servitor-hood.

Lone Cat wrote:

what are the shortcomings of feudal world originated IG regiments? suppose that they got hi-tech weapons supplied by off-worlders.
if much of them were conscripts or "unreliable" militia (like WHFB Empire Freikorps or Brettonian MAA). many IG regiments .. including the highly disciplined Mordian Iron Guard. did use local militia as either Aux or part of the regiments (3rd war of Armageddon)

I'm not sure if there are any instances sayin' that there were 'Home Grown Admechs', a guild of 'mages' operating the hi-tech stuffs but NOT belong to ANY Admech priestly order.

I think the biggest problem is that Feudal Worlds lack the population to keep a regiment going, not to mention that their industrial/agricultural output is insufficient to pay for all their gear as they certainly can't make it. If the Imperium had the time I guess they'd send people to these worlds to drag them into the 41st millenium by introducing them tp modern technology such as medicines and the like - things that would ensure that less of them died from disease and that growing food was easier so their numbers could increase and become more useful.
Outside of Space Marines using them to recruit from, I'd think most feudal worlds exist because they've been either forgotten or the Imperium doesn't have the resources to modernize them. I can't think of any good reason to keep them in an undeveloped form apart from the Chapters using them as recruiting grounds.
Local militias from places like Armageddon are advanced people, they may be hive scum from gangs and the like but they know how to use technology and there are lots of them.

Las-locks, now there is something rediculous from GW/ Flintlocks that fire some sort of laser, but is single shot and must be reloaded after each firing, but it is much moe powerful than a lasgun. That's all they have explained about them

Las-locks are a form of laser weapon which fires a single shot, it's usually crafted from pretty much whatever is to hand.

Las-locks aren't feudal weapons

I don't think a lot of effort would go into modernising a re-discovered feudal world. Most likely they'd just enforce the Imperial Cult, install an Imperium controlled governer, and institute tithes of resources or manpower. Technology would be introduced to the extent that it would aid the Imperium as a whole, but they're not out to build utopias.

I don't think population levels would be too much of an issue, either, as they could provide enough able bodies to create a few regiments at least. There are examples in the fluff of regiments being created from inhabitants of multiple worlds, or smaller regiments being assigned as auxiliaries to larger ones.

Since guard regiments get raised from worlds even less advanced I don't see why raising one from a feudal/black powder tech level world would be a problem. They'd just have their fighting style adapted to incorporate more modern imperial guard fighting methods.

Doctadeth wrote:Las-locks are a form of laser weapon which fires a single shot, it's usually crafted from pretty much whatever is to hand.

Las-locks aren't feudal weapons

No they are, they are low tech las weapons that guard regiments raised from there are equipped with, as they can replicate the design

Citation needed, winnertakesall and Doctadeth. Where are you getting the info from?

Lexx wrote:Since guard regiments get raised from worlds even less advanced I don't see why raising one from a feudal/black powder tech level world would be a problem. They'd just have their fighting style adapted to incorporate more modern imperial guard fighting methods.

Do you remember any examples? It's what the OP was looking for.

There was an example of a regiment from a feral world in the previous Guard codex, but I forget their name.

Also, it's not exactly canon, but the top right picture on this page seems appropriate.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=400032&pIndex=2&aId=13900001&multiPageMode=true&start=3

I think there was a feral regiment in the short about the blue bloods, in the newest Guants Ghost.

Saying that though they could have just been described as feral by the blue bloods.



In the Iron snakes the first story is set on a feudal world.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think there was a feral regiment in the short about the blue bloods, in the newest Guants Ghost.

Saying that though they could have just been described as feral by the blue bloods.



In the Iron snakes the first story is set on a feudal world.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think there was a feral regiment in the short about the blue bloods, in the newest Guants Ghost.

Saying that though they could have just been described as feral by the blue bloods.



In the Iron snakes the first story is set on a feudal world.

Lone Cat wrote:what are the shortcomings of feudal world originated IG regiments? suppose that they got hi-tech weapons supplied by off-worlders.
if much of them were conscripts or "unreliable" militia (like WHFB Empire Freikorps or Brettonian MAA). many IG regiments .. including the highly disciplined Mordian Iron Guard. did use local militia as either Aux or part of the regiments (3rd war of Armageddon)

Feudal worlds have feudal populations, they are low in number (one point against use in the IG) and if you introduced space travel and aliens into a locals outlook their brain would probably freeze (having a whole regiment get 'shell shock' is a massive waste).

The only way the IoM could dramatically increase the level of tech of a feudal world would be to remove the population and bring in some hive worlders. just adding high level tech wouldn't help as in most cases it would cause a population to collapse and massive death tolls.

The IoM does not need to:
A. recruit IG from most of the planets in its empire
B. raise the level of tech of a planet, the IoM does not care about the population of a single world. As long as they can produce a certain resource to a set amout the powers of be don't care if you live in a woodhut or a great hive city

htj wrote:Citation needed, winnertakesall and Doctadeth. Where are you getting the info from?

Read it on lexicanum I believe, will edit with link.

EDIT: My apologies, I can't seem to find it, I thought I had it saved.

In the 5th ed. 40k rule book there is a feral regiment of headhunter in the IG section.

Feudal world, from my experience, is used in 40k to basically define any world which hasn't developed space travel capabilities.

basically anything lower then the level of technology we had at the start of WW2 could be a feudal world.


Now, not all Feudal worlds have no contact with the IoM. many recieve visitors from the IoM on a semi-regular basis, but the extent of the contact is nearly completely Religious and undertaken by the Ecclesiarchy.

Grey Templar wrote:Feudal world, from my experience, is used in 40k to basically define any world which hasn't developed space travel capabilities.

basically anything lower then the level of technology we had at the start of WW2 could be a feudal world.


Now, not all Feudal worlds have no contact with the IoM. many recieve visitors from the IoM on a semi-regular basis, but the extent of the contact is nearly completely Religious and undertaken by the Ecclesiarchy.

THEN
1. a world with its natives considered that Wild west weapons (repeating rifles.. notably Winchester, Maxim gun, Rifled Breech loading artillery, revolvers... which all are designed for either CENTERFIRE or RIMFIRE brass cartridges) are common technology can still be classified as FEUDAL world ???
so...
This is the definition of CALDERIS... A barren feudal world, its main tithes is from mining industry (Admech investment )
And those with steampunk tech can still be feudal world by this definition? at the beginning of the WW2, steam technologies were supplanted by petroleum combustion engines. only railroads stil use steamers.
And then is it possible that there are feudal lords running their own armed forces with those repeating firearms?! THAT'S WARLORDS CHINA!
2. So local cardinals/bishops are all come from Terra and not chosen from a faithful native Imperial clergymen?

This is the definition from the 3rd edition rule book:

Technical base just prior of just post-black powder state. Establishment of wide culteral and political organisations. Some useful for recruiting Imperial Guard and Adeptus Astartes.

In other words the fluff keeps changing. Black powder is a late mediaeval/early renaissance technology so if that is the cutoff then worlds with flintlocks, percussion caps and bolt action weapons are too advanced to be considered feudal.
If every author and edition has a different definition then anything goes.

there really isn't much difference between a flintlock and a bolt action in terms of actual technology.

its more the fact that it takes someone thinking "hey, what if we prepackaged powder and balls in these nice convieniant canisters to load into guns? it would be much faster to shoot"

Henry the 8th had one of the earliest breech loading fire arms in history. it wasn't mass produced, but the technology was there at that time.



most technological advances arn't some fantastic breakthrough on a principal no one under stands. its taking existing knowledge and putting it together in new and useful ways.

Anything above that is considered a 'Civilised planet'

Feudal planets can be densely populated. London of the Middle Ages had over 1 million people in residence, making it one of the most-populated cities in Europe.

They certainly raise IG regiments from them (they raise them from Feral Worlds, after all), though their gear comes from the Munitorum, not the planet raising them. They'll get the basic flak armor and lasgun, and be sent off to a distant warzone. Surprise, your homeworld is one of millions in a galaxy-spanning Empire... now get on that spaceship!

There is also, in the Calixis Sector, a Feudal world by the name of Acreage. It is said that, on Acreage, the king has a lasgun... and this makes him king. Visitors to the planet are often burned at the stake as witches for committing the heresy of owning a comm-bead.

Technology on Feudal worlds is very, very low. Swords and platemail, horse-mounted cavalry (or similar), real Age of Iron type stuff. Bows and arrows, all hand-made, slings and sling-shots, that's about all you'll see for ranged combat options. *Maybe* up to early blackpowder weapons.

there were many contradictions here.

- DoW2 backstory said that Calderis is Feudal world but having early-industry technology. don't say that Calderis folks do have revolvers and repeater rifles in a regular basis
- Lexicanum said that the highest extent of technology was blackpower weapons. but it doesn't elaborately say to which extend does such weapons developed to (and everyone may operate it)
even in this thread. one can say that the most advanced feudal world is something the Empire in WHFB is rightnow. others said the most advanced form of this weapon that still make a world classified as feudal was breech loading weapons using brass cartridges and percussion caps.