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When you're planning a new army, do you intentionally avoid a list that won't be very stimulating to play with or against? Do you avoid lists that are too popular or too obvious of a powerful build?

For example, I've intentionally refrained from building mech Imperial Guard. Additionally, my Grey Knight army is a Terminator list. 5 Terminators costs me 225 points and gets a Psycannon. By contrast, for 225 points I could run 6 Purifiers with 3 Halberds, a Hammer, 2 Psycannons, and a Razorback with Psybolt Ammo. No wonder every Grey Knight player at the most recent tournament I went to had about the same list...

Currently, I own mech Dark Eldar, which I find very unforgiving, Grey Knights, and Necrons. I own, but don't play, a mechanized Blood Angel list.

My mentality changed after I built an extremely powerful Space Wolf list that my friends flat out refused to play and bemoaned. The game really should be about both players having fun, rather than winning or losing. If you're going to a tournament to win, I imagine you could have simply saved on the entry fee, hotel room fee, etc. and made out better than even if you won first overall.

What are your thoughts?

I play what appeals to me from a hobby and flavor standpoint. Unfortunately, that has twice now landed me in the "popular" end of the pool. I started collecting Warhammer Fantasy Dark Elves during 5th Edition, and started playing them during 6th. For a few years I had an army book that was pure garbage, and I was the only Dark Elf player in our whole group. Cue the 7th Edition army book, and the massive influx of Dark Elf power gamers that it saw. People would give me endless crap over playing the Army of the Month, despite the fact that most of my figures were from 4th Edition, and that I had been playing pretty much the same list for two years before the new book even dropped. I picked up Imperial Guard for 40k last year without having any idea where they lay on the power curve. Surprise surprise, they're top tier... On the plus side, I don't gravitate towards power builds or power units, so neither my Dark Elves nor Imperial Guard are cookie cutters.

The important thing to me when making a list is that I like it. I choose units I like because of fluff or looks or some other reason. Does not matter how competitive the list is. I don't care (I do play pretty much only friendly games though). As long as I have fun playing with the list it is all okay. No matter if I lose horribly and my troops get mangled, deep fried and eaten. I've gotten some feedback about my predator. A twin-linked lascannon, heavy bolter sponsons and a storm bolter. People tell me to change the autocannon on it or lascannon sponsons and dropping the storm bolter. Not gonna do that. That tank with it's current loadout has won me several games. My leman russ punisher in my guard list has been amazing although people keep telling me it's bad. I can't say that I avoid anything. Who knows, maybe some day the list I like ends up being a powerful build.

I generally don't mind no matter what the list is, a game is a game. Depends more on the player to me. Though I once fought the new Dark Eldar with a 600 point handicap on purpose with SoB. Turns out SoB don't lose every match automatically.

I myself run a slightly average list, at least in my opinion. I've set pretty much all my armies a theme and try to stick to it as much as possible. So I don't think my list is a pushover, but likely not tourney quality either.

I have a hard list and a fun list. If people complain then I play my easy list next time.

n0t_u wrote:I generally don't mind no matter what the list is, a game is a game. Depends more on the player to me.

This comprehensively answers every thread on this subject.

But this is the internet, and that's not how we roll. I don't like net-lists, as I feel that if I achieve a victory with someone else's tactics, then it wasn't really my victory at all.

Good thread. Yes, I do. My DE lists are so utterly brutal, that I've stopped playing DE, just because I refuse to build a sub-par list. It's too easy. I have never once lost with them, or even come close. I usually haven't even disembarked my troops choices by t5, let alone lost them.


For CSM, I'm willing to try new things, because I love chaos. It's my passion to find different ways to use them, whether that be Slaanesh lists, Assault lists, lascannon spam lists, whatever. Even biker lists are fun.

Yes and no. I'm not going to go out and find the winning list for every point tier and then mimic it exactly, but I try to find out what kinds of armies are doing well. I play Space Marines, and when I first started, it was because I had purchased a sizable army off of a friend. The army had absolutely no vehicles of any kind, so my first dozen or so games saw me playing fielding entirely infantry.

Everyone recommended I get vehicles. Now I have them, and I do much better.

I'm not going to play the 'hot ticket' army line for line, but I'm not going to avoid aspects of the 'easy' list just because I want to give myself a harder time.

I play to win of course, as everyone should, but I choose my army based on what I like rather than what's likely to get me a win. Sometimes I choose units for their effectiveness, sometimes for their fluffiness, and sometimes for their looks.

I like to play Sisters of Battle because I like the idea of an all-female army... at least until I have to start removing casualties, sometimes nearly a whole squad at a time - I forgot my opponent had that plasma cannon, despite my writing their list. I choose Retributors because I like the idea of a heavy weapons unit. I give my Retributors heavy bolters instead of multimeltas due to their increased effectiveness.

I think my multi-melta retributors got one clear shot in all the games I played with them, and that was a foolish Land Raider that drove up right into my main battle line with a payload of Terminators. [The Terminators and Land Raider managed to wipe a 150 point squad of Battle Sisters from existence with shooting and melee, before massed bolter and melta and flamer fire from said main battle line erased them, along with their Librarian and Chaplain, and the Land Raider died the next turn.]

I used to avoid Repentia and Penitent Engines because I couldn't think of a fluffy reason for my custom fluff Sisters Mission to have them. I liked the models though, so I got together with a friend and had a brainstorming session, and we came up with a way to include them and keep them fluffy.

When choosing a new army, I tend to avoid the flavour of the month stuff. It'll also negatively impact my enjoyment of playing Battle Sisters if and when they become a flavour of the month, because I'm afraid I'll be seen as a band-wagon follower. I was comforted somewhat, because I have a case full of metal Sisters, so I could always say, "I've been playing Sisters for a few years now."

When planning a new list, I go with a theme I want for the army, rather than combining the most powerful units. Alternatively, I go with units I like for one reason or another.


As for the rest... I think the game itself should be played to win. But fun comes foremost for me. If I'm having a terrible time, it's a sign I should stop playing for a while and calm down. I play WH40k for the same reason I used to read books - for entertainment value. I want to win of course, but I don't mind losing so long as I had fun playing.

Speaking of fun, I'm having trouble keeping my thoughts together. I'ma go get some sleep, since it's almost 4 AM.

I like using units that 'no one takes' unless they really are crap (vespids *cough*).

However now I'm trying a jumper BA army - I have no idea how I'll crack all the mech I'll be facing!