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do "defensive saves stack???

...just been told you can only take YOUR BEST save...

how does this work?

I have a SS weilding Sgt in cover..

a bunch of Guard are blasting away at him... surely you make cover save... then invulnerable save then armour??? not just one???

am I completly wrong here?

Varl Sigmund wrote:

a bunch of Guard are blasting away at him... surely you make cover save... then invulnerable save then armour??? not just one???

am I completly wrong here?

Sorry, but you are wrong.
You get one save, the best one available.
Might be armor, or cover or invulnerable, but you just get one save.

EDIT: Look at the top right of page 24 under models with more than one save. Clearly spelled out.

Yes.

You are completly wrong



You may only take your best save.

Hence why Guard players have squads in cover for a 4+ and only ever take that over their 5+ (May be wrong on that, but the point is the same)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
21 second ninja...

Edit for ninja'ed.

Only one save, then FNP.

yes, unfortunatley you are wrong, you only ever get one save, which has to be your best. Otherwise it would be ridiculously hard to kill anyone in cover....

so your sergeant would use his 3++ storm shield. (unless he has terminator armour and he would use the 2+).


EDIT: damn ninja'd...lots of ninjas today

ok really stupid question then...

what is the point on taking a SS on a termy then?

AP2 weapons ignore a 2+ armour save.

So that you get a 3++ Invulnerable save, against the likes of Power Weapons & Instant Death.

Varl Sigmund wrote:ok really stupid question then...

what is the point on taking a SS on a termy then?

It improves your invulnerable save.
Look at page 101 in Codex Space Marines.

EDIT: Wow! Ninja'd right back! Well done!!

Revenge

Varl Sigmund wrote:ok really stupid question then...

what is the point on taking a SS on a termy then?

For when they get into a fight with a bunch of nobz with power claws, or has a demolisher s10 ap2 pie plate dropped on them, they're still taking 3+ saves.

I wish they would make it so cover at least had some benefit to higher armor people that wear rosarius and such though. I guess I don't have much room to talk since I have the 2+ or 2++ depending on if I feel like it model wandering the board.

Where are you getting the 2++ from?

Only DE have a 2++, and dont have a 2+ to go with it.

I guess you meant 3++

nope sisters of battle cannoness with cloak of st. Aspira + Spirit of the martyr act of faith. Oh look my armor save becomes invul

Ah yes, the "i feel like it" part confused me.

Given im meant to be playing doubles with a jump cannoness fielding partner thats embarrassing

Which I have heard from the upcoming white dwarf is gonna be a very unreliable strategy now

The tournament is July, so the upcoming WD isnt important for that!

Icefire, I see your point, and there are a few occasions where a cover save can help you even if the invulnerable can't. (Against a Vindicare assassin, but that's the only one I can think of off the top of my head...)

But honestly, if you are shooting out of a copse of trees, and have a personal forcefield, which would you prefer to be your first line of defense? Leaves, or the forcefield?

So I have a question regarding cover saves. I play orks and I was playing in a friendly game this past weekend when the question arose with FNP. I was playing my Nob Bikers, which have the exhaust cloud special rule, with a pain boy for the FNP ability. My opponent shot an AP2 weapon at my bikers. This AP2 weapon did not have an ability to negate the cover save I was given by the exhaust cloud special rule, and I failed the 4+ cover save. I then rolled the dice again for my FNP ability and passed. He said I do not get to roll for FNP because I failed the cover save roll and since it was from an AP2 weapon which doesnt allow a armour save I had to take a wound. Is this correct or do I still get to roll the FNP due to the fact that the cover negates the AP value of weapons so since I was allowed a cover save I get the FNP ability to re-roll the cover save.

You do not get the FNP. AP2 is specifically listed as negating FNP in the FNP rules.

Just to note:

The "other wounds against which nor armour saves can ever be taken" means that no models will ever get a an armor save. If you shot a bolter at a model with a 5+ armor save and Feel No Pain, the model would still get FnP. The fact that particular model does not get an armor save is different to no-one ever getting an armor save.

Yes I have read that in the FNP special rule sectgion, but also read what it says in the cover save section. It says that being in cover negates the AP of a weapon so you are allowed a cover save against it, unless the special rule for the weapon does not allow cover saves, Right? The FNP rule states you can not use the FNP ability for a lot of reason, including AP1 and AP2 weapons or when no save is allowed, right? So if I am in cover I get a cover save, Right? and when if I fail the cover save, I was allowed a save against the weapon, Right? So if I am allowed a save why wouldnt i be allowed a FNP ability? Since the cover negates the AP I am allowed a save so I see no reason why I would not be allowed the FNP ability? Thanks


Automatically Appended Next Post:
kmdl1066

I understand the armour save issue as it relates to LOS shooting. I am an ork player I get shot to hell all the time with my foot sloggers so I will plead cover saves every chance I get. My question is since I get to take a save do i still get to use the FNP ability if I fail the cover save.

Because you are not being allowed an armor save. Cover does not remove AP2 from the weapon, it provides a different kind of save, a cover save. Cover saves aren't affected by AP because they are not armor saves. The exact text does NOT say it negates the AP, it says it is unaffected by the AP.

However, it remains the case that it IS an AP2 weapon and thus you don't get feel no pain. You're still not allowed an armor save. If you were in 4+ cover, had a 2+ armor save, and got shot by an AP2 weapon, you'd only get the cover save, taking 2+ armor wouldn't be an option.

You always get FNP no matter what kind of save you may have taken, so long as the weapon in question does not fall into the listed exclusions for Feel No Pain.

Cover ignores the AP value, but nothing says it makes the weapon no longer count as having an AP value.

As such you were hit by a weapon with AP1 or 2, and cannot use FNP against it.