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So today I was in a friendly game with a fairly new player at my FLGS. And he deployed some arty in a ruin. Which is cool in of its self. But he deployed it to where it was under the ceiling of the 3rd floor so it couldn't be hit by my manticore. He then tried to fire it, stating that he didn't need line of sight to shoot his whirlwinds and when i asked about it being in a building he said other players let him. After i looked in the book i saw no mention of it not being allowed to fire inside a ruin. Just if it comes down on a ruin it hits the first level under the center. My question is, is it really RAW that barrage weapons can do this?


EDIT: To attach a quick visual aid. And to correct typos in the edit.

I can't speak for specific rules but I sure would not let him.

I really didnt feel like arguing with a 12 year old. Especially when the rules don't state it. And his dad was standing right there, giving me dirty looks any time i corrected his son on rule issues. It really didnt matter too much, sly marbo appeared turn two and popped it with a demo pack.

I personally don't agree with players shooting a weapon "Through" anything.

If he for example had barrel that was able to "See" out of a window or hole in the structure that would be fine. But i do not think you should be allowed to shoot Through anything.

This issue of LOS with a Ordnance Barrage weapon basically stems from a lack of a Firing Arc that these types of weapons in reality have. I know to add firing arcs to the rules would add So much confusion, and i am unsure of how it would all work. Though it Would get rid of this type of argument.

Just address the issue with the player stating the fact that if the model were physically shooting a whirlwind missile it could Not travel straight through the ceiling or walls. Address it with other players before the start of the game as it it seems to be a gray area in the current rules.
OR, make up your own rule, that if a player wants to shoot a Ordnance Barrage round through a wall, have him roll a D6 and a on a 1 roll, the round explodes near his model.

Above all else, just have fun! If he wants to say he can shoot through, and he is putting up a fight. Don't waste your time and cause frustration by arguing back. Have FUN!!!

Cheers
FireCancer

I didn't push it with him, I just didn't agree with him, but in the future since it is a gray area I'll be sure to address it before the game. I wouldn't have minded if it had windows in the front, but it was a two sided, 3 story windowless ruin.

1) I assume you mean a RUIN. Buildings are intact, have an armour value, and only infantry can embark in them

2) This is entirely, 100 legal *if* it is a ruin

Agreed, there is nothing in the rules that state what the kid did is an illegal move. I'd give it to him.

Exactly, unless agreed otherwise before the game ruins can be shot through, as long as the shot would be legal.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:...But he deployed it to where it was under the ceiling of the 3rd floor so it couldn't be hit by my manticore. He then tried to fire it, stating that he didn't need line of sight to shoot his whirlwinds and when i asked about it being in a building he said other players let him.

If he can shoot out with Indirect fire that does not need LoS, you can shoot at it with Indirect fire that does not need LoS.

Either way the placement and shots out were 100% legal if it was a ruin.

Actually, you can always shoot through ruins at a unit within, that unit simply gets a cover save. The only time you cannot is if you cannot LoS the target unit, but you could still indirect with barrage. All that I see he did was use the ruin to provide a defense versus indirect attacks, which is a smart thing to do. Unless the ruin was such that you could not get LoS on his vehicle?

SJ

The manticore could fire into it because it doesn't need LOS when firing indirect. When firing templates into ruins, you decide a level, I would think the same applies to blast markers as well. There is nothing in the rules saying that barrage needs to have clear airspace, so it is technically legal.

And if the dad were to give you a stink because you keep correcting his kid, mention to him that the wee one isn't playing the game correctly and should probably learn how.

-cgmckenzie

DeathReaper wrote:If he can shoot out with Indirect fire that does not need LoS, you can shoot at it with Indirect fire that does not need LoS.

Unless shooting at it without LoS is in a Barrage, in which case you can't target any level below the top level.

The "12 year old" with the dad who gave dirty looks was completely right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cgmckenzie wrote:There is nothing in the rules saying that barrage needs to have clear airspace, so it is technically legal.

You might want to turn to the section on ruins, and read the two paragraphs under Barrage. The kid was right, the OP wasn't.

Yeah, your right. I was thinking about the rules for firing barrage and didn't pull out my BGB to check the ruins rules.

-cgmckenzie

To clarify, This was a ruin that had no windows or hole open on the front sides. So no LOS into or out of it. He parked his whirlwind in it. Since the roof covered him, indirect fire couldnt get get him. I just wanted to know if it RAW that you can still fire out of it.

And I didn't try to correct him about it. Just found it odd. It was a good, but cheesy, move on his part i guess.

There's nothing in the rulebook that says he needs to have emptiness above him.

There should be, though

-cgmckenzie