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I'm fairly new to fantasy, having started just after 8th ed. came out. I have written up a 2500 points list of Dark Elves for use in a tournament, and would like some comment/criticism as to whether this list is too hard/soft, what can be improved, etc. So without further ado, this is the list:
Lords:
Morathi with heartrender and Book of Ashur and potion of toughness 590pts
Heros:
Shadowblade 300 pts
Core:
20 crossbowmen with full command, shields, and banner of eternal flame 250 points
20 crossbowmen with full command and shields 240 points
20 crossbowmen with full command and shields 240 points
20 crossbowmen with full command and shields 240 points
20 crossbowmen with full command and shields 240 points
Rare:
4 Repeater Bolt Throwers

You are going to run into trouble with that list. You are trying to play a gunline, which has a fatal flaw for DE: Empire and Dwarves can do it better, and WOC can wade through it. T3 shooting is not going to win the game for you by itself. And once the other guy gets to your line, he will smash you.

Besides... DE named characters are way overpriced for what they do.

If you're after a tournament worthy list, have a look at my Youtube battle reports thread (link in my signature)

As noted above, this is not a tournament Dark Elf list. This is really just "how many Crossbows can I fit?". It does not lead to a fun game, and it does not lead to a winning game.

Crossbowmen are nice when considering two things: They're relatively inexpensive compared to other elves, and they're our best Core choice in terms of points-to-output. When combined with debuffs from Shadow magic they can go from a moderate nuisance to rather deadly, but even then they're support roles and not a bulk of the army role. Because you are taking Morathi (not the most optimized idea), you are limited to both a very expensive character and one that cannot take Shadow magic.

Speaking of Morathi, she does not need more power dice from a very expensive magic item. What she does need, and what any other caster we have needs, is a proper ward save to keep her alive. Either the normal 4+ Ward talisman if you run into a bunch of Death magic, or the Pendant of Reverse Ward if you just run into normal things most of the time. I highly recommend you degrade her to a Lv.4 on Pegasus with Pendant and Shadow magic. It works wonders for Dark Elves, and you save many points for doing so.

Because Dark Elf characters (special and normal) are fairly pricey, you always want to consider what their purpose is. You want a highly mobile, powerhouse caster. Great, a Lv.4 on Pegasus covers that. Or, if you're taking a long-ranged lore like Shadow, you can lose the Pegasus and pick up something else without too much issue. You need a survivable BSB with either a proper ward or regen save along with good armor, so a Master can do that pretty well. Once you start adding more characters, you'll really want more purpose other than taking them just for the sake of more characters.

Another problem with taking nothing but Crossbowmen is that the power of the current Dark Elf book is that nearly everything in it is good, if not great. Even the things that are great (like Crossbowmen) are only great when taken with other units that make up for what they lack. Only our Hydra is a loner, but even it is happier with synergy.

I am not a big fan of Reaper Bolt Throwers. For their points, other things are nearly always better. Yes, you always remember that time a bolt tore through five Chaos Knights at once, or the time it really saved your skin against an incoming beast. However, look at what 100 points buys you. A single shot that misses half the time at range, and then doesn't wound most monsters half the time, and then has to get through the increasing number of regen/ward saves that monsters have nowadays. For monster hunting, you are at a painfully low percentage to actually accomplish anything. Even if you do manage to hit, wound, AND get through a save, you get to deal a mighty d3 wounds. That's it. Yes, you do have the option of the six-shooter, but that's fewer shots at only one strength higher than normal crossbowmen, and the accuracy is just as bad. The only way to have a better chance of dealing any real damage is to take four of them as you have, but then that's 400 points! That's two Hydras and a nearly a unit of Harpies. While there are no guarantees in a dice-based game, you will be hard pressed not to get more leverage in a game out of two Hydras and 50pts of anything worthwhile.

tmarichards wrote:If you're after a tournament worthy list, have a look at my Youtube battle reports thread (link in my signature)

While there's certainly nothing wrong with directing people to battle reports, when your entire comment is just advertising your Youtube channel it is not helpful to the situation and defeats the purpose of someone asking for guidance here. You may consider including specific advice you have learned through your battle reports and then add a "check out my youtube for more", that way both the original poster and others participating in the thread can respond.

I actually tried this army with a few modifications yesterday. Instead of the 2 heroes i took Shadowblade, master of assassins.
My opponent's army was High Elves. He took Teclis, Korhil on chariot, another lion chariot, 2 blocks of 21 swordmasters, 2 blocks of 28 Sea Guard, 2 Eagles.
We played a standard Victory points game.
I got turn 1, revealed Shadowblade in Teclis' unit, issued a challenge and chopped up the swordmaster champion. Morathi flew up on the flank, cast Black Horror with irresistable force, killing 18 sea guard, but lost all my power dice in the process. The crossbowmen were all out of range and didnt do much. THe bolt throwers killed the other lion chariot.
His turn 1 involved His depleted sea guard unit charging Morathi, who fled, his other block of swordmasters, 2 eagles and korhil all advancing towards my lines. As Teclis' unit was in combat, he could only cast a few spells (he had picked lore of life), and i dispelled all except flesh to stone on himself. In combat, Shadowblade issued a challenge that Teclis accepted, mainly because my opponent forgot i had a strength potion. Shadowblade was wounded once by Teclis, but still managed to kill the mage.
In my turn 2, i advanced my crossbowmen up within range, while pulling Morathi back from the Sea guard. I rolled a 12 for winds of magic, and began by casting soul stealer on the swordmasters in combat with Shadowblade, killing 7 and bringing Morathi up to 6 wounds. Then, I cast Black Horror on the other Swordmaster unit, killing 13. In shooting, the bolt throwers killed Korhil and his chariot, the crossbows shot up the rest of his swordmaster unit and most of the sea guard. In his turn 2, he charged the remaining 14 sea guard at 1 of my crossbow units, despite needing 5s to hit, i still wiped the unit out from stand and shoot. In combat, shadowblade was killed by the swordmasters. At the end of turn 2, he had 11 swordmasters and 2 eagles left.
In my turn 3, my whole army advanced towards him, except for the bolt throwers. No charges. Morathi cast Soul Stealer on the swordmasters again, and incredibly, rolled nothing but 5s and 6s, wiping the unit out. the bolt throwers finished off the eagles.
TO conclude, I found this army actually fairly powerful. The crossbows are really good at 24inch range shooting, since i always fire 2 shots and can move and shoot. They are also fairly resilient in combat, more than my spearmen. The bolt throwers are superb at menacing solo monsters, and Morathi can effectively dominate the Magic phase. Shadowblade is a gem at shutting down part of your opponent's army. In this case, I stopped Teclis from thrashing me, which I would say is 300 points well spent.

I guess that's one thing we should've mentioned, when fighting other Elves the multitudes of crossbows is rather nice. However, you stated yourself that you constantly threw an abnormally large amount of high rolls with everything you did from shooting, wounding, and spells.

Shadowblade killing something like Teclis is indeed the best possible outcome of him, and in situations when he works out like that it's great. With most other armies you won't have a big fat juicy target like Teclis. If your opponent had refused the challenge from Teclis it is likely that Shadowblade would have simply been ran over by Combat Resolution if not killed outright.

If you enjoy playing DE Gunline by all means go for it, I just worry what will happen when you come across things with more bodies, higher toughness, and thicker armor than elves.

Edit: And I nearly forgot the most important part of my post... congratulations on killing those Ulthuan scum! Death to the false king!

thanks
i'm playing a game against nurgle warriors later, i'll post up how i went afterwards

I played the fatecrusher list yesterday
He took fateweaver, skulltaker, a tzeentch herald, 55 horrors with the changeling , 8 juggernaughts and 3 screamers
It ended as a draw, I just needed to kill 1 more horror to claim a crushing victory
Overall I'm quite happy with how this list is working

Wow, 55 horrors?

In any case, keep up the good work! How'd the match against Nurgle Warriors go, by the way?

I am 99% sure ur BSB is not allowed a dispel scroll as it is an arcane item and only wizards can use them.

Pob82 wrote:I am 99% sure ur BSB is not allowed a dispel scroll as it is an arcane item and only wizards can use them.

make that 100%


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play against any T4 army and crumble. personally can't see any dark elf army working without at least some speed and monsters. especially at these points levels

Actually I won that game against nurgle warriors
He took a nurgle sorcerer on foot, 4 blocks of 20 warriors, and a blOck of chosen to go with the sorcerer .
Turn 1, I popped shadowblade out into his chosen unit, killed his sorcerer, but got hacked to bits by the champion
This meant Morathi was free to fly around dropping soul stealer and black horror on him, and my army gradually whittled him down bit by bit
Ended up winning by about 120 pts

It sounds like you don't play in a particularly competitive environment. Please don't take that the wrong way, it's actually quite nice to see that people are bringing lists they like and consider fun, much like your pincushion army of doom! I just think that may better explain why your list is working for you better than we are expecting it to.

Played a local GW instore tournament last weekend.
Played 5 opponents: Nurgle/Tzeentch warriors, Fatecrusher, Teclis/swordmasters, gunline dwarves, full lance Brets.
Won the first 4 games pretty overwhelmingly, got a minor lost against the Brets, who with their ward saves managed to whether 2 full rounds of fire and magic from me.
Really supprised at my Xbowmen's ability to outshoot dwarves.
Placed 4th out of 18 players, would have come 2nd but got hit really hard in comp

And you always will get hit hard on comp because spamming RXB's is cheesy. The only way it could get worse is to add 2 hydras.

There are so many better things DE could be doing rather than shooting S3 AP x a billion.

What happens when your enemy wades right thru your shooting and starts hitting you in the face?

the Crossbowmen aren't bad in combat
They are actually more surviveable than spearmen since they also get a parry save.
With 200 shots a turn, not to mention my dominant magic, there is very little that can wade through all my fire
The Crossbowmen are the best core choice DE have, efficiency for points wise
I considered dropping the bolt throwers for hydras instead, but I was warned that I would get zero comp so I didnt.

I'd give it zero comp as is.
I think Skaven would give you a run. WLC has more range than the RXB, and even with 200 shots a turn it will be hard to kill enough slaves to stop them from reaching your lines.
Anyone who takes a challenge from Shadowblade has a well earned loss comming to them.
WoC have to issue a challenge, if the WoC took a warshrine, he could've issued with his champ, and let Shadowblade get owned in combat res.
TK will just bury thier tomb scorps/snake cav guys, VC will just raise a bunch of zombies in your way, and take the challenge with the unit champ, them bring it back next turn. There is also the option to refuse the challenge all together.
The RXB army of Doom works very well. Until your opponents figure out how to get around it.
Congrats on doing so well with it for so long, but the army does have flaws.
People here just aren't making thigs up just to throw you off your game. If you are crushing the local guys; why post your list here?
Is it just tell everyone that you're Boss Hog in your area?
Other players are trying to give advice, because when you post a list and ask "what do you think?"; it looks like your asking for advice on how to improve it. Like in fact, is says in your OP.
If your only answer is to say; "Thanks, but I own as is." you should've just posted something up in the Batt Rep section instead.

If your looking on how to improve your Comp score, then drop all the SC, half the RXBs, 2 of the RBT and get a unit or 2 of corsairs.
If you want to make it truly WAAC, swap some RXB warriors for shades with GWs. Shades wreck shop with BS 5, and GWs, they are one of the best support units DE have.