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I'm new to Orks and want to make an Army list that is quite survivable, so I've gone for the 1500 Point Battlewagon rush. I've taken a Big Mek and a Warboss, but the problem is the Warboss Unit, a bunch of Nobz, even with a painboy, die really easily to any form of shooting or assault. I would take Mega Armoured Nobz and a Boss, as the mobility won't suffer as much in my list as they'll be in a wagon and they would be pretty handy at holding objectives, has anyone else found MANZ to be useful in games?

Uh, how do 2W/5++/4+ FNP nobz die really easily to shooting or assault? Anything that kills them really easily is going to kill MANz even easier, as they don't have an invul save or a boss pole.

I think your problem might be lying elsewhere.

Jidmah wrote:Uh, how do 2W/5++/4+ FNP nobz die really easily to shooting or assault? Anything that kills them really easily is going to kill MANz even easier, as they don't have an invul save or a boss pole.

I think your problem might be lying elsewhere.

Because Nobz can easily die to S8, it doesn't have to be AP2. And plus giving Nobz all those upgrades in 1500 points is too expensive especially when you'll no doubt be having about 7 of them in the army, put them in a Battlewagon with a boss and it's pretty much an 'All Eggs in one Basket' Unit.

Plus my Warboss is going to be with the MANZ unit and he will have a bosspole, I seem to do really well with 2+ save but awful with 4+ + FNP

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

Jidmah wrote:Uh, how do 2W/5++/4+ FNP nobz die really easily to shooting or assault? Anything that kills them really easily is going to kill MANz even easier, as they don't have an invul save or a boss pole.

I think your problem might be lying elsewhere.

Because Nobz can easily die to S8, it doesn't have to be AP2. And plus giving Nobz all those upgrades in 1500 points is too expensive especially when you'll no doubt be having about 7 of them in the army, put them in a Battlewagon with a boss and it's pretty much an 'All Eggs in one Basket' Unit.

Plus my Warboss is going to be with the MANZ unit and he will have a bosspole, I seem to do really well with 2+ save but awful with 4+ + FNP

Megaz can survive battle cannons, noz can't.

cheapbuster wrote:Megaz can survive battle cannons, noz can't.

Same with Krak Missiles, and I know quite a few space woof players who have plenty.

Meganobz will attract a lot of fire, but the Big Mek in my army will still give them a 5+ cover save when out of the wagon as they will be within 6" and that's pretty much the same as a 5++.

So basically getting shot at with rocket launchers. If you don't get cybork or 'eavy armor for your nobz, you could just as well not take them at all. That's like taking boyz without a nob, one of the upgrades is mandatory. As you are having problems with rockets, go for cybork. With the amount of AP4 fire everyone is packing, it probably is the better option anyways.

Second, don't put your warboss with them. Seven nobz are going to rip most units and vehicle appart they touch without his help. If they can't kill it the warboss can't either. Rather put the warboss somewhere where he does help the unit he is attached to, like burnaz or boyz(or kommandoz if you really want to). He helps them kill stuff that they usually can't kill, and more important, he kills stuff that would usually kill them. It also makes two units worth shooting at, rather than one.

Third, why are those rockets shooting at your nobz in the first place? They should stay in your battlewagon until they get dropped onto a unit they kill. They usually wipe that unit out, so you'll be open to shooting for that turn. Consolidate into cover, put your battlewagon in the way of the rocket launchers or just charge them first, not necessarily with the nobz. That way you'll lose usually lose no more than one or two nobz. After that, jump back into your wagon and keep on driving to you next victim. If that many S8 shots are directed at your nobz, chances are pretty high of your bw surviving.

If you still want to go for mega-armor, keep in mind that MANz and the MA Warboss are really slow once the lose their transport, and are usually just as easy to dispatch as Nobz. They are missing diversification options, a waargh! banner, an invul save and the bosspole. I don't think it is worth giving all that up for just a 2+ save, especially if it comes with drawbacks(Slow&Purposeful). MANz do have a uses, but forming big units is not one of them. A friend and usual ally for 2vs2 matches always brings his 10 MANz wagon, and I have honestly never seen them pull their weight. Nothing needs 10(or in your case 8) power klaws to be killed, three are more than enough.

If you want to field a MA warboss however, that is really up to taste. If you don't mind one of your unit's moving S&P, go for it. If you got points to spare, you can even use Ghazghkull Thrakka instead, for all sorts of benefits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cheapbuster wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

Jidmah wrote:Uh, how do 2W/5++/4+ FNP nobz die really easily to shooting or assault? Anything that kills them really easily is going to kill MANz even easier, as they don't have an invul save or a boss pole.

I think your problem might be lying elsewhere.

Because Nobz can easily die to S8, it doesn't have to be AP2. And plus giving Nobz all those upgrades in 1500 points is too expensive especially when you'll no doubt be having about 7 of them in the army, put them in a Battlewagon with a boss and it's pretty much an 'All Eggs in one Basket' Unit.

Plus my Warboss is going to be with the MANZ unit and he will have a bosspole, I seem to do really well with 2+ save but awful with 4+ + FNP

Megaz can survive battle cannons, noz can't.

If you get the whole unit hit by a battle cannon, that's your problem right there, and you also have a 5++ save. On the other hand, MANz will not survive any kind of melta or demolisher shot, while nobz do. When counting meltas vs battle cannons im pretty sure that the IG can get get an equal amout of hits.

I find that MANz work best in units of three with a Boarding Plank Trukk.

Shoot across the table and park up next to a tank, MANz tear tanks to shreds. MANz are shot to death next turn, but that saves another one (or two) of your units

S_P

MANz are ded killy, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. But either run them in a small unit of 3-4 as a coterie for your Warboss, or run multiple 10 MANz units- and always put them in a Wagon. If the wagon gets wrecked or destroyed, try and get them into terrain, since they basically ignore it. They can be faster than you'd think, rolling 2d6 and taking the highest, with Run, Consolidate and Assault moves. But use them as a hammer, concetrating on empty vehicles and non-powerweapon units first, because they'll wreck those.

If you could bear to give up your Boss or your Big Mek, try getting Grotsnik and giving them Cybork. Then you basically have a bunch of Paladins running around.

I think a mega armour war boss with 3 diversified manz in a ride could work. Hit like a tonne of bricks, scoring, not too expensive, and the Manz benefit from the boss pole and ld boost of the wb. Will let you know how they work out in my next game : )

GoDz BuZzSaW

How exactly have you been taking your nobz units in 1500 then? I can tell ya, in smaller games, I make a 6 nob mob, and they arnt very pricey at all, around 300ish points if I remember correctly, and they are hard as nails. I agree, you are either building them wrong, or using them wrong, which is ok, everyone has to learn at some point.

So start with how you typically take them in a 1500 pt build, and do they footslog? transport?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rubicant99 wrote:I think a mega armour war boss with 3 diversified manz in a ride could work. Hit like a tonne of bricks, scoring, not too expensive, and the Manz benefit from the boss pole and ld boost of the wb. Will let you know how they work out in my next game : )

I do a similar but its with 4 MANz (you can actually diversify them) and Ill tell ya, there isnt anything Im scared to throw them at. If you choose to put your attacks on the warboss, well fine, all those MANz are cutting you to ribbons, sticking them on the MANz? Ok hows 6 STR10 PK attacks fee?l?

I'm afraid Rubicant's got it right on this one, King. You can only diversify up to 3 MANz- they only have two options for Kombi-weapons. If only you could buy a Big Shoota for them, though...

Another reason to proof read I meant 3