Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well is there? Looks like a fun game with some nice minis but seems to be having trouble picking up traction. I would like to pick it up but I don't really want to buy games that I will never play. Still may pick it up at GenCon anyway.

Well, what do you want to know? The game is very small scale, the miniatures are ok, and the rules are pretty standard for that kind of game.

The website run by MERCS is a bit of a backslapping zone for the producers, where any negative feedback on the game is quickly suppressed by the loyal hard core fans who live their, in spite of the fact that traffic is pretty low.

The game itself is pretty limited at the moment, and personally, I think this will be it's death. Each team is locked to five miniatures per side, and each character has a fixed weapons load-out, so while you can select from (currently) six miniatures per faction, each miniature is pretty static in what it can or can't do.

The positive side of the game is that you can play a game in a couple of hours max! It's cheap to get into, so persuading a friend or two to buy into it for rainy weekends in doors shouldn't be hard.

Can it compete with the big boys out there.....I think, sadly, not. Once you've played a few games, depending on you, the novelty and "excitement" can quickly wear off, which means the games book becomes a nice table weight, and unless you have access to games where proxying miniatures is encouraged, the minis for MERCS will make nice dust collectors on your shelf.

All of this is my opinion, and nothing more, so if you are hell bent on buying into this game please don't let my words stop you, given the cost you really can't go wrong. But if you imagine you will be following and playing this game for years to come, my advice is buyer beware!

General thoughts are:

A) The system of using cards for movement and range is...interesting. It feels like they're trying to be innovative, but most players looking into the game are already going to be familiar with tape measures and templates of some kind. The inovation falls a little flat and it just ends up being a movement system that can be cumbersome when dealing with the amount of terrain the game seems centered around.

B) Army composition is frankly weak, basically which model would you not like to include. On top of that, many feel very samey. Yeah the assault leader, demo and medic all have moderately differently abilities, but they have the same gun, armor and FN, so more often than not it doesn't matter.

C) Overwatch and Supression are broken, and that's being generous. A model in either mode automatically supresses/attacks anyone in LoS which makes it feel less strategic and more "who can get the heavy in overwatch first". Speaking of MGs in overwatch, having them attack the entire corridor everytime anything takes actions in their LoS is something that just needs to fixed. Makes it to easy for a heavy in good position to pin down an army and considering most of them are on the high side of armor and damage it becomes problematic to uproot them and the game simply doesn't have a good mechanic to counter it. Supression can also get dumb with some of the armies forcing motivation to take actions and even if you pass giving you a penalty which gets outright stupid at some points.

D) You roll a lot of dice to do nothing. The amount of turns a heavy can throw stupid numbers of dice downrange only to fail to hit anything is pretty staggering. The FN of all weapons probably needs to be dropped by at least one because so many firefights seem to drag on without anyone getting hit. The flip-side is that the heavy throwing all the dice has enough armor that if doesn't fail an armor saving throw your small arms are just bouncing off. It gets worse when you factor in overwatch penalty or active camo making the entire affair sound a fury symbolizing nothing. It feels like Devil May Cry in terms of bullets often doing nothing.

E) The scale actually seems to hurt the game more than it helps it. The models have special rules, but not on the same level as Malifaux or even Warmachine where it gives the models neccessary character. Then the game is run on a D10, which just seems wierd with so few models because it doesn't allow for the stat variation to differentiate a lot of the models who end up feeling very samey with only a few stand outs.

F) Random initiative is stupid. I hate to outright say a mechanic is stupid, but what order all of the models go in every turn takes up a good bit of time and often serves to remove strategy more than add to it. Rolling off with your opponent for initiative and alternating activations ala Malifaux would work much better and play into the games touted "strategy" aspect better.


The game is in it's first edition, so I don't expect it to be perfect or even refined. It genuinely seems like a good bit of additional personality on some of the models along with a system like a D20 could actually give the models some real flare that make them stand out among each other and from different games. Combined with some refinement of the numbers to keep it from feeling like rolling dice is futile (and boy is it ever when enemies are in cover and you have a heavy which is all the time) and a top-down review of how they want overwatch/supression to function

Pretty much confirmed my fears. It seems to stagnant. I remember when it launched and there isn't an appreciable difference in mini selection as well as the main website forum seemed a bit small. I can't help but think of Wargods of Olympus, which has had only play test rules and the same models for many years now. They keep acting like it is going to expand but at each GenCon it has been the same thing.

I have a slightly different perspective on the game. Could be my old age kicking in but I like when games don't go much over an hour these days and can be played on a 2'x3' space.

First off, Mercs is about maneuver and stacking bonuses. Fire numbers are high so you'll need a good position to give bonuses to rolls to take someone out. I'll admit our first game was a bit of a let down with a lot of fire for no damage BUT our second game (which had a lot more movement by both sides) saw a lot more punishment being doled out quickly. If your idea of fun is to put out 5 figs and snipe at each other from cover then play a different game. If you want a game where you are rewarded for good maneuver and squad tactics then you've made a good choice. Heavy weapons in this game are closer to their real world counterparts than something like 40K. They are used to cover or suppress large areas and punish anyone foolish enough to spend any amount of time in that area. They are terrible at taking out individual targets with a well aimed burst. In fact, these weapons are the WORST unless you use the overwatch and suppression rules.

Overwatch and suppression are not broken but they do work differently than in other games. Most games mix suppression/overwatch into a single action that let you interrupt the opponent's turn and do damage. In Mercs, they are separate. Suppression gives you the opportunity to stop your opponent from taking actions during their turn but does no damage at all - losing activations is a big deal if you only have 5 guys. However, if your target starts its action out of the LOS of the suppressing unit the suppression means zilch and you can get capped without having done anything useful. Overwatch gives you the potential to fire lots of shots and take out anything that decides to stay in that area. Then again isn't that what you'd expect from a full auto weapon covering say a hallway or alley? With one exception it takes models two turns to set up overwatch. If you see the heavy stop and set up then I guess you know you'll either be looking for a different way to advance or suffer the consequences. In the end overwatch is still a simultaneous action so while you get to fire at someone they still get to take their action which means you may end up dead anyway.

As a side, Infinity (which I also like) allows folks to attempt to make you into chunky salsa every time you take an action in front of a mini and they don't need any sort of order to do it- it just happens. I think that's FAR more harsh than what it takes to set up suppression or overwatch in Mercs.

The cards....I'm indifferent about the movement system. It, in fact, is more restrictive than any other game I've played since you must move the length of the card to one of three open spaces and turns/facing changes are limited as well w/o sucking up movement points. You also can't move to a point that is out of your LOS so you can't cut around corners into a building even if the card spaces would let you. What I do like about the movement system is the snap to cover idea. You run headlong from one building to another only to wind up 1/2" short of the doorway. In any other game - suffer. In this game you can "snap" to terrain/cover that is within 1 base length as your guy makes a heroic dive to keep from being turned into a fine paste. The bounding movement system allows for some neat movement combos as well and, when used correctly, gives the game a very nice, coordinated squad feel.

Special rules - each guy has 4, 2 personal skills and two corporate skills. The equipment they carry adds usually one or two more special rules. I would think that would be enough options for most gamers. You can't mix and match equipment/skills though so I can see where some folks who are used to lots of choices might be turned off. As an example I play Warmachine and tend to use the troops and jacks with as few special rules as possible so maybe that's why it doesn't bother me that there are no characters bristling with cosmic power or game breaking rules that make them a must have piece.

Random initiative - some love it and some will hate it. The bounding system means that it's still possible to coordinate your team to get the most out of it. Since there's only 5 guys per side (max - our group's been playing 3 fig games and they are VERY tense) the multi-initiative is not really taking any more time to get through a round than an "I go you go" game or an "activate one, I'll activate one" system. Does it take some getting used to? Yep. Does it ruin the game? I don't think so.

Choices - this is a real sticking point for a lot of people. You don't have the options of say an Infinity or Malifaux and that may disappoint some folks. In the games' defense, it is a newer game than both of those systems and two more factions are already in the works. The background for the game is more of a special forces feel than a cult/army/mob game so I would expect a limit to my choices (otherwise they become not so special/dime a dozen forces.) I personally am not turned off by the fact that I only have 6 guys per faction, can't pick their skills or equipment and can only use 5 per game but I can see where others would be. It does mean army creation takes 5 minutes, not 30 though and when I win it wasn't because of some quirky rule I exploited because my opponent didn't have hours to spend digging through tomes or crunching numbers or min/maxing a list for a killer combo - I won through better resource management and maneuver. I have other games that can fill the role of brain draining min/maxing and if that's what I want to do then I'll play one of them instead (don't get me wrong, those types of games are fun too.)

I'm sure this is coming off as a fan boy post but honestly it's not. I've played a grand total of 4 games and have had to proxy all my figs. I liked the price point on the game (hardcover, full color book on very nice high gloss paper for under $40 - NICE) and I liked the way the Behemoth and Kemvar Heavy looked so I took the plunge. I can see potential for expansion here. The ability to customize figs equipment and skills would help that a lot. I could even see small vehicles (I'm thinking like a recon bike/buggy) making an appearance. A larger card for movement will naturally make these larger models faster than other figs without a need to seriously change any of the current mechanics too. Time will tell I guess. I like the game so I hope there's some success for these guys.

I agree with Sar, its a solid game.

While the game might be fairly bare bones now there are plans to expand it in the future.

sarcastro01 wrote:
First off, Mercs is about maneuver and stacking bonuses. Fire numbers are high so you'll need a good position to give bonuses to rolls to take someone out. I'll admit our first game was a bit of a let down with a lot of fire for no damage BUT our second game (which had a lot more movement by both sides) saw a lot more punishment being doled out quickly. If your idea of fun is to put out 5 figs and snipe at each other from cover then play a different game. If you want a game where you are rewarded for good maneuver and squad tactics then you've made a good choice. Heavy weapons in this game are closer to their real world counterparts than something like 40K. They are used to cover or suppress large areas and punish anyone foolish enough to spend any amount of time in that area. They are terrible at taking out individual targets with a well aimed burst. In fact, these weapons are the WORST unless you use the overwatch and suppression rules.

Overwatch and suppression are not broken but they do work differently than in other games. Most games mix suppression/overwatch into a single action that let you interrupt the opponent's turn and do damage. In Mercs, they are separate. Suppression gives you the opportunity to stop your opponent from taking actions during their turn but does no damage at all - losing activations is a big deal if you only have 5 guys. However, if your target starts its action out of the LOS of the suppressing unit the suppression means zilch and you can get capped without having done anything useful. Overwatch gives you the potential to fire lots of shots and take out anything that decides to stay in that area. Then again isn't that what you'd expect from a full auto weapon covering say a hallway or alley? With one exception it takes models two turns to set up overwatch. If you see the heavy stop and set up then I guess you know you'll either be looking for a different way to advance or suffer the consequences. In the end overwatch is still a simultaneous action so while you get to fire at someone they still get to take their action which means you may end up dead anyway.

We actually had the opposite situation. In the first few games we were terrain light and Heavies in overwatch basically sat in cover and eventually killed everything. After adding more terrain we discovered that with Snap to Cover, it nearly took an act of god for someone to not have cover or be in the open. There are very few hitting buffs available in the game and the easiest one to get of Flank only applies to melee attacks which is a complete mess. It's much easier for you to stack defensive buffs (cover, supression, etc.) than for your opponent to stack the very situational offensive ones, but hey, to each his own. What is feel is broken about supression and overwatch is not that they exist, it's that they are too broad in scope. If a heavy sees someone taking an action out of the corner of his eye, he blazes away at full firepower. A supressing model magically shoots at everyone simultaneously. Without targets or even sectors of fire, the "everything in your front arc" gets outright dumb and when in overwatch often gives you orders of magnitude more shots than you would get by actually shooting so why bother taking shots when you could just overwatch?

I'm not asking for game breaking or uber special rules, but there's currently very little to define the models against each other and in a game so small more attention to making them individualized as opposed to clones with extra piece of gear or line of text would go a long way.

Catyrpelius wrote:I agree with Sar, its a solid game.

While the game might be fairly bare bones now there are plans to expand it in the future.

I'm sure there are plans, my concern is that those plans won't be a reality.

Ahtman wrote:I'm sure there are plans, my concern is that those plans won't be a reality.

See how it plays first. They should be demo's or games a GenCon. If you like it enough, maybe pick up 2 forces or proxy like Sar. Then it's just a question of getting another warm body which is typically easier for smaller scale games.

robertsjf wrote:

Ahtman wrote:I'm sure there are plans, my concern is that those plans won't be a reality.

See how it plays first. They should be demo's or games a GenCon. If you like it enough, maybe pick up 2 forces or proxy like Sar. Then it's just a question of getting another warm body which is typically easier for smaller scale games.

You'll note my concern is not one of mechanics; I am weary that it never moves beyond what it is now. With so many available options I don't really want to invest in a game with no foreseeable future. I need something that won't require a major convention to be able just to find someone else to play with once a year. I like a lot of things about it but compared to, say, Infinity or Malifaux, it doesn't seem to be getting a lot of momentum. That isn't even factoring in GW or Privateer Press.

Ahtman wrote:You'll note my concern is not one of mechanics; I am weary that it never moves beyond what it is now. With so many available options I don't really want to invest in a game with no foreseeable future.

I did. You are worried about finding other people to play it with and seeing it develop. I countered with the fact that it seems like a nice, self contained skirmish game and that you could buy and paint 2 forces, find some random dude, drop down on 2'x3' surface and go. I guess you're looking for a primary game system that you'll play most of the time. I was pointing out that even if Mercs advances no further, you have a decent secondary system you can bust out when you get sick of your primary, thus any money spent wouldn't be "wasted" per se. So the question is this: could you use a secondary system or are you only interested in a primary?

robertsjf wrote:I countered with the fact that it seems like a nice, self contained skirmish game and that you could buy and paint 2 forces, find some random dude, drop down on 2'x3' surface and go.

No, you countered with "See how it plays first.", which doesn't address the issue of long term viability at all, it addresses how the game plays. It doesn't matter if it is a 'primary or secondary' game. I'm not looking for a game to play once a year or that I have to buy a secondary army to force others to play. I've brought the subject up at the FLGS and there isn't much interest and it seems like online even that it is not growing. I'll be happy to buy some of the minis to paint but I'm not buying a rulebook and $100+ bucks in minis just to hope that once a year I can get a game with them. It could have the best rules in the world but that doesn't really mean much in the bigger picture. If being the best ruleset was a metric for success Warhammer wouldn't be as popular as it is.

@Ahtman

While going slightly off topic, I think you need to be wary. Sometimes, you gotta take one for the team...there's a lot of ignorance out there in terms of games, people tend to know what they know.....I think buying two small armies just to get people hooked isn't a bad thing.

Back on topic, would I recommend buying two armies of MERCS? No.

I've been on the MERCS website, and raised what I thought were issues, regarding the sustainability of the game.....I basically got shouted down by fan boys. So, as far as I'm concerned, if their game is so great it doesn't need me to prostitute it to the masses. I think if the people who ran the show showed a little more humility, and stopped gussing on fan boy strokes they might see where they stand in the grand scheme of things and focus on addressing those issues.

Delephont wrote:@Ahtman

While going slightly off topic, I think you need to be wary. Sometimes, you gotta take one for the team...

Oh absolutely, but you still want to make an informed choice. That is the point of this thread as Mercs is sort of on the line as to which way to go and so I am asking if others are seeing some of the same things I am as far as being concerned with its possible future. I have several games that went no where and that is fine, but I try not to be all willy-nilly in the choosing new game systems.

I've got MERCS. I bought the entire system when they had a big sale earlier this year.

My next project is going to be painting the MERCS models and building a North African looking town for terrain.

I haven't played it yet, and I've only read the rules. The card movement is a nice idea and gives each model a complete Sheet of Quickness. The rules are fairly quick to learn but give some tactical interest.

I'm not worried that the system isn't going to expand. I like the idea of a game which is complete and won't have any major changes.

In my experience, games and rulesets that introduce changes for the sake of it often spoil the factors that attracted people to them in the first place. Battletech was ruined by the advancement of the storyline and the introduction of the Clans. Star Fleet Battles was ruined by the introduction of the X Technology ships. Conversely, WRG Ancients was ruined for some people by the change from 6th to 7th edition, which I liked a lot.

If I get tired of MERCS I can pack it away and play something else. The only bits that can't be used elsewhere are the rulebook and the movement cards. The figures and terrain will work nicely for various other games.

I'm not worried that the rules and tactics are different to 40K (for example) and have their own limitations and bugs. I don't think there are any perfect wargame rulesets, and it would be boring if they were all the same.

You make it sound like they are adding expansions and what was released was a standalone product when that isn't true. What has been released is essentially wave 1 and they have never gotten around to wave 2. They have all sorts of stuff on the shier site with things they are supposed to be coming out with but there hasn't been any new releases for some time.

I'm sure it is nice to just be able to invest in any new game that strikes ones fancy to just for funsies but I have to be a little more discriminating with my gaming dollar so that line of reasoning doesn't really work for me.

In MERCS defence, these guys have day jobs, and MERCS will never have the release schedule that companies like GW or Infinity will "enjoy".....this was always going to be a slow bake project.

Most of the time, the investment comes from their own pockets, and not a return of investment already sunk into the project....therefore we can't expect a month on month product release.

This probaby also explains the scale of the game to some extent.

Delephont wrote:In MERCS defence, these guys have day jobs, and MERCS will never have the release schedule that companies like GW or Infinity will "enjoy".....this was always going to be a slow bake project.

Most of the time, the investment comes from their own pockets, and not a return of investment already sunk into the project....therefore we can't expect a month on month product release.

This probaby also explains the scale of the game to some extent.

That does explain a bit, but we aren't talking about not having month to month but not really having much of anything past the initial release. That also isn't the entirity of the situation either. The mechanics seem fine, generally, and haven't been a huge concern. I just don't need another game where I can't find another player but once a year at best, and that would be what I am looking at it seems.

I took the view that $232 was worthwhile because it included all four factions. The rules are extra.

I don't need to search for other people who play it, because I have all the models. The rules are simple enough that you don't need in-depth training to understand them.

If you're looking for a game which has continuous add-ons your spending will be much more in the long run.

I don't think MERCS is that kind of game, for reasons mentioned above. The web site has a not-working link to something called sefadu. It looks like that might be a fifth faction. If they eventually get around to releasing the models for that, it won't invalidate the other factions, it will just be an extra option.

Kilkrazy wrote:I don't need to search for other people who play it, because I have all the models.

But you do need to search for other people who will play. If I just wanted to play with myself I wouldn't need a miniature game to begin with. The gamers around here either only play Warhammer or RPG's and I can't get them to budge on skirmish games for the most part. $232 to sit and collect dust isn't a good investment for me. If it seemed like the player base was going to expand over time, thus increasing the possibilities of finding a game i would be more inclined to take the plunge. As it is I'm leary as it doesn't seem to be growing. I've watched Infinity and Malifaux slowly expanding but Mercs seems to be sitting still. I'll see what the atmosphere is like at GenCon around the game.

I know I'm not a fan. I live in Indy, where the MERCS designers are, and got my FLGS to talk to them at GenCon about stocking it at the store.

The MERCS guys never replied to any requests.

Mattlov wrote:I know I'm not a fan. I live in Indy, where the MERCS designers are, and got my FLGS to talk to them at GenCon about stocking it at the store.

The MERCS guys never replied to any requests.

This actually doesn't surprise me. I don't know what it is, but if you get a chance, wander over to the MERCS website and forum.....I just don't know, but there's a certain type of arrogance that seems to prevail......and for a game that's so small, I'm not sure where it's coming from.

I think the owners are super stoked they've managed to bring their game into reality (they thank god for it at every opportunity), they even have a section for "fan ideas", kinda like a suggestions box for where MERCS could go next.....there are some interesting ideas, that mostly get shot down.

To Ahtman, I think, for what you're looking for, save your money......either go Infinity, Malifaux or Anima Tactics. I would avoid MERCS unless you have a similar outlook to KilKrazy (which you don't seem to have)

Ahtman wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:I don't need to search for other people who play it, because I have all the models.

But you do need to search for other people who will play. If I just wanted to play with myself I wouldn't need a miniature game to begin with. The gamers around here either only play Warhammer or RPG's and I can't get them to budge on skirmish games for the most part. $232 to sit and collect dust isn't a good investment for me. If it seemed like the player base was going to expand over time, thus increasing the possibilities of finding a game i would be more inclined to take the plunge. As it is I'm leary as it doesn't seem to be growing. I've watched Infinity and Malifaux slowly expanding but Mercs seems to be sitting still. I'll see what the atmosphere is like at GenCon around the game.

The wargaming scene is different in the UK. There is much more acceptance of trying out different rules and periods.

Kilkrazy wrote:The wargaming scene is different in the UK. There is much more acceptance of trying out different rules and periods.

That should have been in the "Why the UK is the greatest country ever" thread.

Mastershake wrote:
D) You roll a lot of dice to do nothing. The amount of turns a heavy can throw stupid numbers of dice downrange only to fail to hit anything is pretty staggering. The FN of all weapons probably needs to be dropped by at least one because so many firefights seem to drag on without anyone getting hit. The flip-side is that the heavy throwing all the dice has enough armor that if doesn't fail an armor saving throw your small arms are just bouncing off. It gets worse when you factor in overwatch penalty or active camo making the entire affair sound a fury symbolizing nothing. It feels like Devil May Cry in terms of bullets often doing nothing.

Sadly this is somewhat realistic. If you research military and police rounds fired versus hits scored its crazy. Huge amounts of ammo are expended for very few hits.

However, it makes for a crappy game.