Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I was wondering if anyone has noticed the slight similarities btwn Cadian models and the German Wehrmacht in the Second World War? I noticed most just say they look like generic sci-fi soldiers. I noticed the Wehrmacht similarities though and that one of the reasons i picked them. I know they do have similarities with generic sci-fi soldiers and other armys but i noiced the German military similarities more. Here are some examples:

To make a comparison you should put the comperable up too but yeah a lot of IoM stuff looks like Nazi stuff.

It is a commentary on the suave Nazi tailors not on the mindset of Cadians.

OTOH exterminatus is kind of the imperial "Final Solution" to its many problems.

I agree there are a few nods in the Cadian line...not to the same level in the DKoK and Steel Legion lines, mind you, but still there.

Much of the Imperial aesthetic is based on iconography from Roman Catholicism, Nazism and Soviet Russia. That's always been obvious.

If anything, they've toned it down in modern Cadians and so on.

Ruckdog wrote:I agree there are a few nods in the Cadian line...not to the same level in the DKoK and Steel Legion lines, mind you, but still there.

For the umpteenth time:
There's nothing in the Death Korps of Krieg outside of the "Krieg" that ties them to the Wehrmacht directly, especially not the SS. The majority of it is WW1 France/Bismarckian Germany.

Steel Legion are far far closer to the Falschirmjager in their appearance(the smock, helmet design, and even the bayonets depicted in their artwork are Falschirmjager patterns).

OP:
The hats you linked have been common in pretty much every military around the world at some point. The brimmed cap is seen commonly on officers, and we even had something similar during WWII as well.
The wool cap is specifically something called a "forage cap" and was commonly worn underneath helmets.
The belts, again, are something common in pretty much every military around the world. It's referred to as "webbing" and there's literally dozens of different ways that you'll see it done. From the complex MOLLE rigs that you see on soldiers serving now to the simple belts and suspenders of earlier wars.

The boots part, however, you're wrong about. Cadians are wearing shin boots, at best. They're made to look like modern tactical boots, but they have an armored shinplate.
The winged skull that you see on the various Guard models is a common motif across the Imperium, and you see it on Guardsmen, Arbites, and other 'official' Imperial organizations.
Mostly it's supposed to represent a saying that's used commonly which is "Only in death does duty end".

Those guys with skulls painted on their helmets are actually from the Finnish army, possibly the third brigade which fought against the Soviets during the battles of summer 1944, taking part in the battle of Tali-Ihantala.

Rynsester wrote:Those guys with skulls painted on their helmets are actually from the Finnish army, possibly the third brigade which fought against the Soviets during the battles of summer 1944, taking part in the battle of Tali-Ihantala.

Yeah, they're Finns - the version of that picture I'd seen before credited it to fighting near Leningrad in Sept. of '41.

Change the colors of these tunics to brown-green or dark green and you'll have Soviet or British uniforms.

Military equipment tends to lean towards the practical side of things. Remove the army markings and ornaments and it'll be impossible for the untrained eye to tell what nation are they from.

On the other hand, when I see Cadians I inmediately think of the Israeli Defence Forces circa the arab-israeli wars, though I acknowledge they have little in common with them...

Kanluwen wrote:

Ruckdog wrote:I agree there are a few nods in the Cadian line...not to the same level in the DKoK and Steel Legion lines, mind you, but still there.

For the umpteenth time:
There's nothing in the Death Korps of Krieg outside of the "Krieg" that ties them to the Wehrmacht directly, especially not the SS. The majority of it is WW1 France/Bismarckian Germany.

Steel Legion are far far closer to the Falschirmjager in their appearance(the smock, helmet design, and even the bayonets depicted in their artwork are Falschirmjager patterns).

OP:
The hats you linked have been common in pretty much every military around the world at some point. The brimmed cap is seen commonly on officers, and we even had something similar during WWII as well.
The wool cap is specifically something called a "forage cap" and was commonly worn underneath helmets.
The belts, again, are something common in pretty much every military around the world. It's referred to as "webbing" and there's literally dozens of different ways that you'll see it done. From the complex MOLLE rigs that you see on soldiers serving now to the simple belts and suspenders of earlier wars.

The boots part, however, you're wrong about. Cadians are wearing shin boots, at best. They're made to look like modern tactical boots, but they have an armored shinplate.
The winged skull that you see on the various Guard models is a common motif across the Imperium, and you see it on Guardsmen, Arbites, and other 'official' Imperial organizations.
Mostly it's supposed to represent a saying that's used commonly which is "Only in death does duty end".

Oh, always thought it was an armored plate that was attached to a jackboot with straps, but thanks for clearing that up. As for the webbing and all it was just that with everything else that made me compare it to the Wehrmacht and Waffen SS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rynsester wrote:Those guys with skulls painted on their helmets are actually from the Finnish army, possibly the third brigade which fought against the Soviets during the battles of summer 1944, taking part in the battle of Tali-Ihantala.

Thanks, should have looked into the picture befor posting it but i was in a rush.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Agent_Tremolo wrote:Change the colors of these tunics to brown-green or dark green and you'll have Soviet or British uniforms.

Military equipment tends to lean towards the practical side of things. Remove the army markings and ornaments and it'll be impossible for the untrained eye to tell what nation are they from.

On the other hand, when I see Cadians I inmediately think of the Israeli Defence Forces circa the arab-israeli wars, though I acknowledge they have little in common with them...

There is usually somthing to distinguish btwn the uniforms of different armys evan without insignia and markings. German field grey wool uniforms look more green then grey, well at least some, mainly earlier ones but later in the war quality declined, so you see many variations in coloring. With the 'M43' uniforms they are usually a brown grey wool. I know this becouse i have researched them and own some, i collect military gear and i particularly am interested in the Germans. But this is besides the point and iv strayed from the topic.

Rynsester wrote:Those guys with skulls painted on their helmets are actually from the Finnish army, possibly the third brigade which fought against the Soviets during the battles of summer 1944, taking part in the battle of Tali-Ihantala.

almost certainly off topic. but why were their helmets painted with skulls? was that a unit designation? and if so why on their heads and why facing the enemy?

Kilkrazy wrote:Much of the Imperial aesthetic is based on iconography from Roman Catholicism, Nazism and Soviet Russia. That's always been obvious.

If anything, they've toned it down in modern Cadians and so on.

Not to mention the fact that Imperial policy is mainly exaggerated Fascist or Soviet ideals. But the field caps and peaked caps are worn by various armies. The aquila and skull iconography common to all Imperial forces are the ones most like inspired by Nazi iconography. Hey, they were never supposed to be good guys.

Or the old Storm Troopers that were obviously inspired by the Black Shirts.

Aren't the caps quite common in all armies?
This is a british officer cap:


Does it look nazi too?

And here are some soviet officer caps:



I think the caps are quite common among all sorts of nations...

htj wrote:The aquila and skull iconography common to all Imperial forces are the ones most like inspired by Nazi iconography..

Umm double headed eagles are old symbols, like a king would have a common eagle ( 1head ) and a Kaiser, Czar, etc get a "upgraded" one
( 2 heads ), additionally the Nazi iconography did use a 1headed eagle....( to differ from the 1st and 2nd Reich ).
Skulls are GW's trademark, and also an old symbol of mortality. So again nothing Nazi-specific there...

Master of Arms, why do you happen to have a Nazi uniform lying around?

1hadhq wrote:

htj wrote:The aquila and skull iconography common to all Imperial forces are the ones most like inspired by Nazi iconography..

Umm double headed eagles are old symbols, like a king would have a common eagle ( 1head ) and a Kaiser, Czar, etc get a "upgraded" one
( 2 heads ), additionally the Nazi iconography did use a 1headed eagle....( to differ from the 1st and 2nd Reich ).
Skulls are GW's trademark, and also an old symbol of mortality. So again nothing Nazi-specific there...

Yes, I know. But I still think that they took inspiration from Nazi aesthetics when designing them, rather than being influenced by earlier double-headed eagles. Read in the context of the rest of my post, my assumption makes sense.

ChaosGalvatron wrote:

Rynsester wrote:Those guys with skulls painted on their helmets are actually from the Finnish army, possibly the third brigade which fought against the Soviets during the battles of summer 1944, taking part in the battle of Tali-Ihantala.

almost certainly off topic. but why were their helmets painted with skulls? was that a unit designation? and if so why on their heads and why facing the enemy?

Naw, just unofficial (rather morbid) graffiti, like the old "peace" signs you'd see on US helmets during the Vietnam war.

Nothing you have posted is really unique to the Germans. Both types of caps wee worn before WW2, and are still worn today in many parts of the world. Ditto with the belts and gear, etc. Same with the gorget (those go back to the 1600s).

As for the totenkopf,that is a symbol that well and away predates nazi germany.

Kanluwen wrote:

Ruckdog wrote:I agree there are a few nods in the Cadian line...not to the same level in the DKoK and Steel Legion lines, mind you, but still there.

For the umpteenth time:
There's nothing in the Death Korps of Krieg outside of the "Krieg" that ties them to the Wehrmacht directly, especially not the SS. The majority of it is WW1 France/Bismarckian Germany.

Steel Legion are far far closer to the Falschirmjager in their appearance(the smock, helmet design, and even the bayonets depicted in their artwork are Falschirmjager patterns).

Sorry, this is actually the first time I've seen you mention that; I guess I missed the other threads . And I can see your point about them being more reminicent of the WWI era than the WWII (especially with the gas masks). That being said, I still think the DKoK have a strong Germanic look to them, which is what led me to mention them in the first place.

TrollPie wrote:Master of Arms, why do you happen to have a Nazi uniform lying around?

This is off topic but as i said i collect military gear, not just German military gear, also some US and british gear as well, and the one in the picture i just pulled from google images. The last thing i want now is people thinking im a Nazi.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

chaos0xomega wrote:Nothing you have posted is really unique to the Germans. Both types of caps wee worn before WW2, and are still worn today in many parts of the world. Ditto with the belts and gear, etc. Same with the gorget (those go back to the 1600s).

As for the totenkopf,that is a symbol that well and away predates nazi germany.

I know but Totenkopfs were used by the Prussian cavalry, and the Nazis drew from many aspects of German history when desighning their uniforms. As for everything else im aware of most armys using similar equipment, i just always think Wehrmacht or Waffenss when i see stuff like that. Or Soviet, but thats why we have Valhallans.

Anyways this is turning more into a discussian about military uniforms and equipment and not much about 40k.

Gee, I wonder why, considering the OP had barely anything to do with 40k...

I always thought Cadians are pretty much contemporary US-style, whereas Death Korps of Krieg was WW1 Reichswehr and Steel Legion was WW2 Wehrmacht.

Cathachans are, of course, Vietnam-era US Marines. Iron Guard for US Marine dress uniforms, Praetorians for Colonial British Redcoat Army, Valhallan Ice Warriors are WW2 Soviets, Vostroyan Firstborn are Tzar-era Russians ...

At least those have been my guesses so far. The entire Imperium is pretty much a hodgepodge of historical clichés that deal with warfare, aggression and dictatorship - WW1 and WW2 references are just one of the many facets. Not that this is a bad thing - I think that given how many things went in there, the end product looks remarkably "solid", if that makes any sense.

I thought that Cadia was always a subtle reference to Canadia. After all, they share the eye color and proximity to Realms of Chaos, right? Oh wait.

Go CAnaDIANS!