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Would this list be competitive? I have 12 Dark Lances, 12 Liquefier Guns and 12 Splinter Cannons. 24 Kill Points isn't good. All the identical units make for some great target saturation. I may not have enough anti-tank for this points level. Let me know what you guys think.

HQ1: 3 Haemonculi w/ Liquefier Gun (x3) and Venom Blade (x3)

Elite1: 3 Grotesques w/ 1 Liquefier Gun // Raider w/ 1 Dark Lance and Flickerfield
Elite2: 3 Grotesques w/ 1 Liquefier Gun // Raider w/ 1 Dark Lance and Flickerfield
Elite3: 3 Grotesques w/ 1 Liquefier Gun // Raider w/ 1 Dark Lance and Flickerfield

Troop1: 5 Wracks w/ 1 Liquefier Gun // Venom w/ Dual Splinter Cannons
Troop2: 5 Wracks w/ 1 Liquefier Gun // Venom w/ Dual Splinter Cannons
Troop3: 5 Wracks w/ 1 Liquefier Gun // Venom w/ Dual Splinter Cannons
Troop4: 5 Wracks w/ 1 Liquefier Gun // Venom w/ Dual Splinter Cannons
Troop5: 5 Wracks w/ 1 Liquefier Gun // Venom w/ Dual Splinter Cannons
Troop6: 5 Wracks w/ 1 Liquefier Gun // Venom w/ Dual Splinter Cannons

Heavy1: Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances and Flickerfield
Heavy2: Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances and Flickerfield
Heavy3: Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances and Flickerfield

Total: 1845

The list seems pretty powerful, but you may want to think about moving two of the wrack troop choices into others squads, ditching each venom and taking raiders w/Flickerfields, which would add 2 more dark lances.

You could also drop one haemi & 1 unit of grots, for 2 units of 5 scourges w/2 hwb & have 10 pts left over( w/the remaining 5). It was also a good sugestion about doubling up 2 of those units. Nice list. If you go w/ the scourges you could use those pts for grisly trophies on your grot raiders, could help, couldn't hurt.

I'm not a huge fan of grots. I tried them with limited success... And that was 4 man squads with Urien and the strength upgrade, so they were all charging with S7, and had a liquifier/agonizer heamy to boot. It just wasn't worth it.

I'd consider dropping one or more squads of grots and make some or all of your wrack squads 10 man, 2 liquifier, raider squads (or some of them 9 man with the extra liquifier coming from a heamonculus). You'd be losing the splinter cannons, but you'd also pick up lots of anti-infantry power with the bigger wrack squads. They wouldn't *have* to leave the raiders until they get shot down, but then they're still a threat. The wrack squads that pick up a heamy would be able to fight marines too. This would be a really cool list with 6 heamies in 6 9-man wrack squads! Venoms are great vehicles that have a lot of firepower, but the raider, with its darklance and extra troop capacity have a lot going for it too.

I second the poster who said this list could benefit from scourges w/ haywires (or blasters or heat lances)... or perhaps beastmaster squads with khymarea and razorwings (3 BMs, 5 dogs, and 4 flocks only costs 156 pts, is super fast, can fight both horde (even marines) and can *really* lay the hurt on vehicles, and with proper wound allocation is surprisingly durable... probably more so than 3 grots). It would also fit in with your theme.

5 heamies w/ liquifier
5 x9 wrack squads w/liquifier; raider with FF
2 Beastmaster squads (as above)
3 ravagers w/ FF

Comes out to 1807. Anti-infantry, covered; 5 reasonably durable scoring units; 14 lances + the beasts for vehicles; maybe some extra toys for the vehicles or heamies (WWP for the beasts?) could round out the list.

What do you think?

thunderpanda wrote: I may not have enough anti-tank for this points level.

I run 24 lances at this level. Last game versus GK, taking down two StormRaven Gunships took all of it, 4 turns. Broken, danged, Flat out+PotMS

Other times, I'd reduced all enemy SM armor to ruins by turn 3, like 5 rhinos and LRC.

The fastest way to more ranged anti-T is losing the Grotesque units to Trublasters (x4) aboard Venoms (with dual SplintCans). It does unfluff the list though.

Duality is something that you should try to add to the list. That means each FOC slot should be able to kill any kind of target (armor or infantry). In this case your infantry is dedicated anti infantry, so your transports should be all anti tank. So that means raiders for all. 9 raiders and 3 ravagers is going to be enough anti tank for most enemies, and the contents have enough anti infantry.

Also, don't worry about kill points, 1/3 games does it matter, and DE should be playing for the table (and your infantry starts with FNP).

Notabot hit my thought. You really need more anti tank to start taking advantage of your Liquifier spam. Switching out Venoms for Raiders is certainly a solid choice - I think dropping some Liquifiers off the Grots would be a good way to afford it as the Grots will still have the Haemy's Liquifier and will be assaulting stuff asap anyway.

I was thinking and I came to the conclusion that I have no need for grotesques. They have a high strength, but with the wracks' poisoned weapons (for MCs) and my dark lances (15 for AT) in my revised list, that is unnecessary. Now my mouth is watering at the thought of 48 wracks with furious charge, rerolling with poisoned weapons against MEQ...as well as the 12 liquefier guns. It still worked out that I could keep the same number of liquefiers, which I really like.

@rmeju: I agree with your complaints about grots, not to mention they are incredibly expensive $$$! I have decided to take them out of my list as you suggest. I have also decided to throw in one unit of beastmasters. It's too bad i can't fit the baron in with them as well. Do they work alright without stealth? They will be the only units on the ground, and probably the target of a lot of low strength shots in the beginning of the game.

@xambrien: Personally, I can't manage scourges well. They are too fragile IMO and can't hide in a transport. For that reason I don't think I will include them in my list, although good suggestion. Perhaps I could deepstrike them...I will consider this.

@Brothererekose: Look! I increased my anti-tank without unfluffing the list haha

@Notabot and Thor665: Raiders for all! I'm feeling a lot more confident about the anti-tank, although still, 15 DLs isn't a lot. Hopefully the Razorwings can perform some AT duties as well with their rending attacks.

Revised List: (ggrrrr can't get the final venom blade on my sixth haemy!)

HQ1: 3 Haemonculi w/ Liquefier Gun (x3) and Venom Blade (x3) 195
HQ2: 3 Haemonculi w/ Liquefier Gun (x3) and Venom Blade (x2) 190

Troop1: 8 Wracks w/ 1 Liquefier Gun // Raider w/ 1 Dark Lance and Flickerfield 160
Troop2: 8 Wracks w/ 1 Liquefier Gun // Raider w/ 1 Dark Lance and Flickerfield 160
Troop3: 8 Wracks w/ 1 Liquefier Gun // Raider w/ 1 Dark Lance and Flickerfield 160
Troop4: 8 Wracks w/ 1 Liquefier Gun // Raider w/ 1 Dark Lance and Flickerfield 160
Troop5: 8 Wracks w/ 1 Liquefier Gun // Raider w/ 1 Dark Lance and Flickerfield 160
Troop6: 8 Wracks w/ 1 Liquefier Gun // Raider w/ 1 Dark Lance and Flickerfield 160

Fast1: 3 Beastmasters, 5 Khymerae, 4 Razorwing Flocks 156

Heavy1: Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances and Flickerfield 115
Heavy2: Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances and Flickerfield 115
Heavy3: Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances and Flickerfield 115

Total: 1846

Comments/Criticisms on the new list? It seems not many people are trying lists like this. Hopefully now that the models are out, lists like this will start appearing in the GT circuit. (hopefully mine too )

Well, you don't need that many Wracks units.
I'd drop one or two and beef up the FA.

I would advise against the above - FA is a dump slot.

Frankly I'd probably drop the Beastmasters and pull something in from Elite, like some Trueblasters. One squad of three would even let you get that extra Venom Blade you desire.

Another cost saving measure is doing the serious job of comparing the Haemon to the Acothyst.
The Acothyst will still give you a Liquifier via maxing out the squad, will give you better(!) leadership, the same number of attacks, and will work out to be 30 points cheaper (10 if you want the Liquifier)

The downside is loss of Furious Charge. Still - 30 points per unit is a serious question. Even the 10 point saving per unit is serious when you consider you're getting more attacks and better leadership while saving points.

Try #3 at the best competitive liquefier spam: (unfortunately the number of liquefier guns has dropped to 9)

@ Thor: I decided to go with Urien Rakarth and Acothysts instead of the Heamonculi. Then I can still get some pain tokens, as well as the attacks and the leadership.

I put in a unit of grotesques again for urien. The only reason the abberation and liquefier gun are there are for allocation shenanigans.

Now I have 2 units of trublasters. Should be enough anti-tank for mech IG

HQ1: Urien Rakarth

Elite1: 3 Grotesques w/ Strength 6 (x3) + 1 Liquefier Gun + Abberation // Raider w/ 1 Dark Lance and Flickerfield
Elite2: 3 Kabalite Trueborn w/ 3 Blasters // Venom w/ Dual Splinter Cannons
Elite3: 3 Kabalite Trueborn w/ 3 Blasters // Venom w/ Dual Splinter Cannons


Troop1: 10 Wracks w/ 2 Liquefier Guns + Acothyst // Raider w/ 1 Dark Lance and Flickerfield
Troop2: 10 Wracks w/ 2 Liquefier Guns + Acothyst // Raider w/ 1 Dark Lance and Flickerfield
Troop3: 10 Wracks w/ 2 Liquefier Guns + Acothyst // Raider w/ 1 Dark Lance and Flickerfield
Troop4: 10 Wracks w/ 2 Liquefier Guns + Acothyst // Raider w/ 1 Dark Lance and Flickerfield

Heavy1: Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances and Flickerfield
Heavy2: Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances and Flickerfield
Heavy3: Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances and Flickerfield

Total: 1847

I like your second list the best. Here's some small changes that I'd make:

HQ1: 3 Haemonculi w/ Liquefier Gun (x3) and agonizer (x3) 240

Troop1: 9 Wracks w/ 1 Liquefier Gun // Raider w/ 1 Dark Lance and Flickerfield 170
Troop2: 9 Wracks w/ 1 Liquefier Gun // Raider w/ 1 Dark Lance and Flickerfield 170
Troop3: 9 Wracks w/ 1 Liquefier Gun // Raider w/ 1 Dark Lance and Flickerfield 170
Troop4: 10 Wracks w/ 2 Liquefier Gun + acothyst // Raider w/ 1 Dark Lance and Flickerfield 200
Troop5: 10 Wracks w/ 2 Liquefier Gun + acothyst // Raider w/ 1 Dark Lance and Flickerfield 200
Troop6: 10 Wracks w/ 2 Liquefier Gun + acothyst // Raider w/ 1 Dark Lance and Flickerfield 200

Fast1: 3 Beastmasters, 5 Khymerae, 4 Razorwing Flocks 156

Heavy1: Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances and Flickerfield 115
Heavy2: Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances and Flickerfield 115
Heavy3: Ravager w/ 3 Dark Lances and Flickerfield 115

Total: 1851... I guess drop a khymarae or wrack (in one of the 9 man squads). Probably the khymarea since that'll leave you with 11 extra points

15 lances (+ beasts); SIX scoring units; plenty of anti-infantry. Not as many lances as you get with trueborn, to be sure, but an interesting list nevertheless.

EDIT: To answer your question about the BM squads, I find them to be very durable. When you take a lot of little incoming wounds, put them on the flocks, since they have five. If you take a single big hit, put it on the khymarea since they have the invuln and only one wound anyway... you don't want your flocks instakilled by an S6 weapon. And, of course, the actual beast masters are the most expendable part of the unit. No unit is ever truly safe, all can be killed, but the beast squads are tougher than their statlines would suggest, and they're FAST. Don't be shy about deploying them aggressively.