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hey guys... I just wanted to straighten not only a ruling, but also the practicality of something.

Putting Lootas in a Battlewagon or Looted Tank.

Is it viable? Would you do it??

Also, can they still fire at all if the vehicle moves, and at what speed???

I was also curious about Burnas in a vehicle. How far can it travel and them inside still fire out??

Looking forward to some responses..


Cheers!

Lootas in a BW can't fire if it moves. (Lootas have Heavy weapons and counts as moving if the vehicle moves). The lootas also can't fire if the BW is stunned, or stunned & shaken.

Personally I don't like the idea of putting lootas in a vehicle, the opponent just have to shake it and then they are just sitting there looking pretty.

All vehicles (open topped or with fire ports) can move max 6" and then have the passengers shoot out (7" with RPJ, assuming the passengers can move and shoot)

Putting lootas in a vehicle pretty much just gives them a bunker to be in, and you'd have to have it open topped for it to be viable at all.

if the vehicle moves, they cannot fire.

non-heavy weapons (burnas, shootas etc) can fire out of a vehicle as long as it's moved at combat speed (1-6" for a battlewagon)

burnas firing out of an open topped battlewagon is a lot more common, as the open-topped rules make it very deadly

It is completely non-viable. You are spending a HS slot and 100+ points on a vehicle that will make your lootaz worse. The battlewagon may not move at all, because that would prevent lootaz from shooting, which in turn means that suppressing fire has an easy time hitting the sides and shaking it, forcing 300+ points to do absolutely nothing for one turn. And this is assuming the BW does not get wrecked, which leads the lootaz to standing out in the open without cover or behind a LoS blocking wreck, either forcing them to move again or getting shot to bits.
If you simply put lootaz in any random forest in your deployment area, they will not only cost less, but are almost guaranteed to be shooting for at least two turns and still take some concentrated fire to remove.

I do it and it works well. 15 Lootas in a BW armed with a Kannon. You give them an AV14 pillbox capabale of firing a template weapon. Your opponent is going to have to kill it first to get to the guys inside. Additionally if he is shooting a Lascannon at my lootas he isn't shooting it at the other 2 BWs with deffrollas that are full of Boyz charging his way at full speed.

No more getting them shot off the table by Eldar Warwalker Spam armies, DEV squads full of MLs firing frag rounds ect.... I would rather have a BW shaken for one turn than have my lootas take 3-4 caualties then running off the table. I don't look at is as spending 100 points to make them worse. I look at is as spending 100 points to make you shoot at them.

I wouldn't do it mainly because if the tank blows up you will lose a lot of lootas. It is better to have burnas in the battlewagon.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:I do it and it works well. 15 Lootas in a BW armed with a Kannon. You give them an AV14 pillbox capabale of firing a template weapon. Your opponent is going to have to kill it first to get to the guys inside. Additionally if he is shooting a Lascannon at my lootas he isn't shooting it at the other 2 BWs with deffrollas that are full of Boyz charging his way at full speed.

No more getting them shot off the table by Eldar Warwalker Spam armies, DEV squads full of MLs firing frag rounds ect.... I would rather have a BW shaken for one turn than have my lootas take 3-4 caualties then running off the table. I don't look at is as spending 100 points to make them worse. I look at is as spending 100 points to make you shoot at them.

I thought adding a kannon made it closed topped?

Nope, just reduces transport capacity.

Nope.

Ard case upgrade does, and most folk who take the killcannon that i know ard case it too.

The killkannon reduces your troop capacity.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ninjad

Boss GreenNutz wrote:I do it and it works well. 15 Lootas in a BW armed with a Kannon. You give them an AV14 pillbox capabale of firing a template weapon. Your opponent is going to have to kill it first to get to the guys inside. Additionally if he is shooting a Lascannon at my lootas he isn't shooting it at the other 2 BWs with deffrollas that are full of Boyz charging his way at full speed.

No more getting them shot off the table by Eldar Warwalker Spam armies, DEV squads full of MLs firing frag rounds ect.... I would rather have a BW shaken for one turn than have my lootas take 3-4 caualties then running off the table. I don't look at is as spending 100 points to make them worse. I look at is as spending 100 points to make you shoot at them.

That exact same battewagon could just carry another unit across the table. Warwalkers or similar will not only shake that bw for a turn, but for the whole game. Rather than shooting all walkers at them and wipe them off the table, one squad shoots and will usually score a shaken. The other two squads then proceed and kill other stuff, that would be save if the had to shoot a lootaz in cover. 4+ cover is enough to keep them relatively save from all the things you just mentioned, unless the opponent dedicates a lot of fire to them. Him dedicating lot's of fire is a good thing. Also at 3-4 casualties lootaz would be fearless, even after losing 7, they'd still be left with ld8. Seven casualties require the attention of at least four warwalkers with scatter lasers, assuming none of them fortuned. This is about the same amount as a shaken result, with the difference that your 8 lootaz will be able to shoot and destroy an entire squad of warwalkers next turn, while your wagon squad does nothing and gets shaken by the same squad of potential dead warwalkers again next turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The kannon also neither makes the wagon 'ard cased, nor does it reduce the transport capacity.

From context we were talking about the killkannon, not a normal kannon - talking about large blasts.

nosferatu1001 wrote:From context we were talking about the killkannon, not a normal kannon - talking about large blasts.

Actually, Boss GreenNutz said "15 Lootas in a BW armed with a Kannon. You give them an AV14 pillbox capabale of firing a template weapon.".
Nothing about large blasts there. Kannons are template weapons, so the context of this was hijacked somewhere along the way. Not that it matters, though...

OT: I tend to agree with those saying that putting Lootas in a BW isn's such a good idea. It may sound promising at first, but putting that many eggs into one basket is really risky. There are loads of Stength 8 weapons out there so even a BW only showing its front is relatively easy to stun or shake... IMO, the points could be better used elsewhere. All the technicalities have been cleared up already so yeah... that's that.

I thought Kannon fired a single S8 shot, and didnt fire as Blasts?

A Kannon is a basically a short range Missile Launcher, S8 or S4 Blast.

THat isnt that scary, hence why they probably meant the killkannon - AP3 is always more fun...

Yes Jid it certainly could carry another unit across the table. Now riddle me this. Since my list is all ready at 2K points what unit drops out to free points for the one it will carry? Drop the Lootas and this thread is a moot point. Guess I could drop a unit all ready in another battle wagon to free points to get a unit to put in this one but nothing was gained there was it?

At the end of the day it is personal preference. The OP asked if it was a viable tactic to put Lootas in a BW. I happen to think it is and have done so with success. Granted I only put my Lootas in a BW if I'm running all 4 of mine at once. It keeps with my list theme of everyone is in a ride regardless of who they are and no one is on foot. 3 BWs, a Trukk and a squad of Deffcoptas screaming forward are going to draw more attention and fire than the one left behind sitting still. I could put them in cover but it doesn't fit the theme of the overall list. Not everyone builds every list to squash their opponent, take his lunch money and then get a date with his mom. Some folks here acutally like to field themed armies and have tons of fun doing so.

Just throw burnas into the BW and deep fry everything that you come to. Make sure you bring support, though. I had Commissar Yarrick cut through a 15 burna BW in a single turn of combat because it ventured too far away from its escorts.

-cgmckenzie

Boss GreenNutz wrote:Yes Jid it certainly could carry another unit across the table. Now riddle me this. Since my list is all ready at 2K points what unit drops out to free points for the one it will carry? Drop the Lootas and this thread is a moot point. Guess I could drop a unit all ready in another battle wagon to free points to get a unit to put in this one but nothing was gained there was it?

At the end of the day it is personal preference. The OP asked if it was a viable tactic to put Lootas in a BW. I happen to think it is and have done so with success. Granted I only put my Lootas in a BW if I'm running all 4 of mine at once. It keeps with my list theme of everyone is in a ride regardless of who they are and no one is on foot. 3 BWs, a Trukk and a squad of Deffcoptas screaming forward are going to draw more attention and fire than the one left behind sitting still. I could put them in cover but it doesn't fit the theme of the overall list. Not everyone builds every list to squash their opponent, take his lunch money and then get a date with his mom. Some folks here acutally like to field themed armies and have tons of fun doing so.

Well, viable happens to mean exact this. I always have a great time when fielding Badruk and his freebootaz, but I would never claim that they are viable.
Also, easy solution to the riddle: If you field 2k points and all your elites and troops are already riding wagons, and there is no one footslogging... you're waisting points on overpriced units.

Nos: The kannon is 10 points, while the Killkannon is 60. It actually is better than the big thing.

This should be in tactics btw.

Thanks guys for all the posts.
The real reason I asked this was to try and understand the vehicle movement open topped and shooting out of it rules better...
I also was not aware that Shaken or Stunned results also effected the passengers.. Thanks.

I won't be using Lootaz in a transport, I was just curious about its viability and implementation...

FYI there's an Apoc formation (I think it's called Wreckin Krew) that mounts lootaz in trukks and explicitly allows them to fire on the move. The downside is that with all that heavy weaponry bouncing and shaking there's a strong chance of friendly fire incidents. Also they can claim Super-Heavy wrecks as objectives.

Yup. Loota Wreckin' Krew. 3 Trukks, at least 5 Lootas and a Mek in each one, from what I recall. Never tried it, but could be fun. I don't actually have any Lootas right now. Might konvert some up, though...

From the 6th rumors, apparently units in Transports can count as Relentless, which would be rather nice for Lootas.

Anvildude wrote:Yup. Loota Wreckin' Krew. 3 Trukks, at least 5 Lootas and a Mek in each one, from what I recall. Never tried it, but could be fun. I don't actually have any Lootas right now. Might konvert some up, though...

From the 6th rumors, apparently units in Transports can count as Relentless, which would be rather nice for Lootas.

That would be horrifying, imagine devs in rhino, or auotcannons firing out of mobile chimeras